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  • War against ukraine !

    Originally posted by Inga Ukraine View Post
    Old people used to say "France’s infection" because our first enemy was France. France always was against independence Ukraine (20% fascists from France Li Peng and her party elected to the European Parliament , said that U.S. is enemies). Reader German or Swedish Spiegel read that among Maidan’s killer was honest people were saving people in Odessa, absolutely not understands the origin of the Serbian fascists (Serbia’s fascist said that referendum in Crimea was honest.). A candidate to president in Czech said to election absolutely doggy ads...
    Чому французи досі шанують Путіна? | ПІК - Політика і Культура
    Совет *оссия-НАТО обсудит украинский кризис и его влияние на отношения *Ф и альянса
    Here it is the true face of fascism that we have seen in a long time not wearing masks. Until recently, I heard "Gorbachev need to judge for the collapse SyRySyRy, to live well in SyRySyRy", I immediately sent 3 letters and Putler. Let they identificat themselves with the Golden Horde. During the Crimean events 50 % Rasha’s of respondents today said that the enemies are Ukraine, now 60%. Poles peaple with us now very severally, Baltics fear them because are quite small and they look at us hope. I used to say that Europe is prostitute is small, because it is fascist prostitute. Incidentally, look Wikipedia about the word “fascism”, it was from the Italian translated as communication. At 30-y, where all the screaming that they are against fascism, the nazis viewed as stupid. Separatists? Terrorists? They agreed that Maidan’s themselves fired…
    In Ukraine fighting army "Vostok", Serbian mercenaries, Rasha’s journalists lead fire…
    *оссия и Беларусь собираются вводить миротворческие войска в Донецкую область (видео) | ВсеНовости.in.ua
    Каждый третий россиянин высказался за введение войск *Ф в Украину | Страна | Вести
    Як треба спілкуватися з кремлівськими ЗМІ (ФОТО) - . Преса України - новини, свіжі новини, останні новини. uapress.info
    The war because France supported Russia, war because Germany supports Russia. Occupied Crimean Tatars, every day dozens of people injured and killed for their gas, it is not even blasphemous.
    In the war Russia fascism against Ukraine France is against us and want consolidate the status quo.
    What is propohanda, if Quebec-Ukraine.com 2 months was disconnected from the events in Ukraine (not ?). It is a pity that the Ukrainians do not provide information in German and French.[/B]
    GLORY TATARS, JEWS, UKRAINIAN! GLORY UKRAINE! GLORY NATION!

  • #2
    Hi Oleg
    You know, some politicians really make a career on bad things and they are able to do almost everything for money but France is not the worst Ukraine enemy.
    Ukraine enemy no. 1 is Putin now and I don't see any other real enemy at all.
    Of course there are some politicians cooperating with Putin either for money (like Schroeder) or because of fear (partly Slovakia) or because of populism (like Viktor Orbán) but it is more Putin propaganda and manipulation success than real support of Russian nationalism.
    Of course Putin should be not allowed to visit France but this event can be also used to provide pro-Ukrainian negotiations.
    Of course Putin doesn't understand language of human words. The language he understands is language of facts, sanctions, battles and wars but unfortunately it is to complicated to be understood by most of west politicians as there is nobody similar to Putin on west since 1945.
    Another problem is that current president of France is a demagogue one, elected because of economical disturbances.
    I just don't think that French people or France as a country is against Ukraine.
    Big problem of course is that information from Ukraine or Ukraine government are very weak and practically invisible in the comparison with overwhelming Putin lies & propaganda.
    Don't forget that only US or EU can support Ukraine in real and without their support Russia (which is not only very nationalistic and aggressive country but still 2nd military force in the World) probably would invade whole Ukraine few months ago. Don't forget also that they are able to support Ukraine economically but it seems that Ukraine has to defend against Russia & Putin itself, unfortunately (at least as far as socialistic Obama is the president of USA).
    It would be much better to improve Ukraine relations with US/EU rather than make them worse.
    Putin has chosen very good time to attack Ukraine indeed, using plans he prepared very well since 2004. It would be probably impossible if McCain was US president and Ukraine was stronger.

    Oleg, imagine situation in which whole Europe, NATO and democratic countries are united against Russian aggression.
    It would be the biggest disaster for Putin possible. He would be just the loser.
    That's why he tries to befriend with Ukraine, EU, US and NATO and make "west" being recognized as enemy for Ukraine and Ukraine as enemy for "west".
    Such a situation is perfect for him!
    That's why he tries to show that Ukrainians are nationalists/fascists and both EU and US are doing bad things for Ukraine. Is all bad information you hear about EU & US true? Not helping enough in very complicated situation is not the same as both information and military aggression.
    Everything bad happens for Ukraine, Putin is involved in.
    Last edited by Darco; 5th June 2014, 12:17.

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    • #3
      Oleg, don't drink so much vodka before you post.

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      • #4
        Hi, Darco!
        I appreciate the relationship between the countries for quite a long time. For example, Slovak nationalism in Europe threatens no one. In USSR was a great propaganda against nationalism of Lithuanian and Latvian. My trip 30 years ago to Lithuania and Latvia gave me great courage, conviction and patriotism of the Baltic peoples. Or another example, Ukraine and Belarus never fought over a very long period. Therefore, the actions of politicians in the short term are built according to the weight and impact of relationships between countries for quite a long time.
        I'm counting down France's relations with Ukraine from 1919. Franz has great influence in the EU now, but at the hearings was attended not more than 10% of deputies. Students in Paris say that fascism is in Ukraine, not Russia. I was worried because it takes place in democratic countries such as France, Germany and Sweden. I considered Sweden as a model of democracy. It seems that these countries stretch time, and Ukraine needs to campaign in Europe.

        Lviv

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        • #5
          Niech żyje Solidarność! – Φ!
          Україна, Литва та*Польща планують створити спільний спецбатальйон - *акурс

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          • #7
            June 13, 2014 1:54am 3 tanks cross from Russia?
            Підбитий танк - YouTube

            Putler will check reaction EU and US in near time; tactical military term this is called checking battle. EU are laced with his agents, do not forget that he brain is absolutely kgb.
            Dead Hand: *акета Сатана - YouTube made in Ukraine…
            Therefore Russia will do the most despicable concessions to Ukraine in the future.

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            • #8
              Originally posted by Oleg Kapral View Post
              For example, Slovak nationalism in Europe threatens no one.
              I think the Hungarian minority in Slovakia would disagree.


              Students in Paris say that fascism is in Ukraine, not Russia. I was worried because it takes place in democratic countries such as France, Germany and Sweden. I considered Sweden as a model of democracy.
              But it is true - there IS fascism in Ukraine, especially western Ukraine.There are monuments and streets named "in honor" of fascists like Bandera. There are celebrations dedicated to SS Galizien division.

              One clearly visible thing is that many Ukrainians are unwilling to even admit that there is a continuously cultivated fascist legacy in Ukraine, never mind actually doing something to confront and eliminate it.

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              • #9
                slovaks no one bothers to live democratically in hungary or hungarians in transcarpathia.

                the main features of fascism are: no freedom of speech (no independent press, TV ...); no independent judiciary; no free vote (no democracy); prosecution of national and religious grounds; disregard the rights and laws; ideology (the idea of rule); leaderism and mesionizm; contempt for life; party monopoly (or a bunch of ideologies); propohanda aggression (creation enemy). all this was in the ussr, and now are in russia. one word: ligament. nazi germany was not persecution on religious grounds. only thing that distinguishes nazi germany in the past and neo facism russian today.

                Jewish Rabbi was a friend to Stepan Bandera as advisor.

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                • #10
                  Originally posted by Oleg Kapral View Post
                  slovaks no one bothers to live democratically in hungary or hungarians in transcarpathia.
                  ? How could the Slovaks bother Hungarians in Hungary or in Transcarpathia?

                  Slovaks DO bother and mistreat the Hungarian minority living in Slovakia.

                  the main features of fascism are: no freedom of speech (no independent press, TV ...); no independent judiciary; no free vote (no democracy); prosecution of national and religious grounds; disregard the rights and laws; ideology (the idea of rule); leaderism and mesionizm; contempt for life; party monopoly (or a bunch of ideologies); propohanda aggression (creation enemy). all this was in the ussr, and now are in russia. one word: ligament. nazi germany was not persecution on religious grounds. only thing that distinguishes nazi germany in the past and neo facism russian today.
                  1. Not that Russia is perfect, but saying it's almost indistinguishable from Nazi Germany is going way to far.

                  2. Somehow it's (western) Ukraine which is full of worship of fascist leaders like Bandera, parades in honor of SS Galizien and so on.

                  Jewish Rabbi was a friend to Stepan Bandera as advisor.
                  Stepan Bandera was a fascist leader, and his followers were murdering Jews and Poles - these are the facts.

                  There is a cult of fascism in western Ukraine and no amount of denying will make it less real.

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                  • #11
                    Fascist, nationalist, racist, anti-semitic and other extremist groups exist in all countries in the world, including Europe. But they remain a small minority.

                    The recent rise of right-wing anti-EU feeling and voting across Europe is certainly undesirable but despite big gains and wins, is still a very small minority in Europe. Also, much of that far-right voting was cast by ordinary people who wanted to send a message of protest to the EU about the direction it is heading.

                    Right-wing, anti-EU and anti-immigration party; UKIP may now be the largest single party representing the UK in Brussels, but it still only got 27% of the UK vote.

                    Same is true in France, the National Front "won" the European elections in France...but still only had 24% of the vote.

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                    • #12
                      Originally posted by GoodLuckUkraine View Post
                      Fascist, nationalist, racist, anti-semitic and other extremist groups exist in all countries in the world, including Europe. But they remain a small minority.
                      I'm afraid you don't know the situation in western Ukraine (Galicia and Volyn).

                      In western Ukraine, there is a cult of fascist traditions, which is not marginal at all and which has in fact very wide support. There are monuments and streets named in the "honor" of the fascist leader S. Bandera, there are parades of veterans of the SS division "Galizien".

                      Basically, just like Russia never really confronted the legacy of communism, legacy of Stalin, (western) Ukraine never confronted the legacy of Ukrainian fascism, called euphemistically "nationalism" by Ukrainians.

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                      • #13
                        Downing of IL-76, Lugansk

                        Ukrainians grieve, stiffen resolve; IL-76 Crash photos, Map location, SAM speculation: Visit my Twitter: https://twitter.com/codycoyote37

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                        • #14
                          Originally posted by MichaelB_PL View Post
                          In western Ukraine, there is a cult of fascist traditions, which is not marginal at all and which has in fact very wide support. There are monuments and streets named in the "honor" of the fascist leader S. Bandera, there are parades of veterans of the SS division "Galizien".

                          Basically, just like Russia never really confronted the legacy of communism, legacy of Stalin, (western) Ukraine never confronted the legacy of Ukrainian fascism, called euphemistically "nationalism" by Ukrainians.
                          You're right, I don't understand Ukraine anywhere near as much as I'd like and I've not even heard of S. Bandera (I'll do some reading later) but surely the majority of Ukrainians are decent people and not nasty racists?

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                          • #15
                            Originally posted by GoodLuckUkraine View Post
                            You're right, I don't understand Ukraine anywhere near as much as I'd like and I've not even heard of S. Bandera (I'll do some reading later) but surely the majority of Ukrainians are decent people and not nasty racists?
                            I guess that depends on what standards one would use. By my standards, people who consider fascist leaders or war criminals "heroes" are not decent people.

                            As for Bandera, here's a little introduction - the article might be seem a bit outdated, by actually isn't, as the Maidan revolution is basically a Orange Revolution 2.0.

                            A Fascist Hero in Democratic Kiev by Timothy Snyder | NYRblog | The New York Review of Books

                            In short, a large number, probably the majority of western Ukrainians consider fascists from OUN/UPA "heroes" - people who often took part in two genocides - first as German helpers during the Holocaust, then in the OUN/UPA genocide of Polish civilian population. And today Ukrainians from western Ukraine build monuments to them, name streets after them and call them "heroes". They also often conduct something akin to Holocaust denial - they often tend to lie both about their "heroes" part in Holocaust and about the genocide against the Polish population.

                            BTW the thing which makes this different than neofascists or neonazis from other countries is the scale and the level of support for this. Like in the article I gave link to - in every country there are neofasists, but in Ukraine a neofascist actually became the president.

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