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Ukrainian women and infedelity

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  • Ukrainian women and infedelity

    I spent about 2 Ĺ months travelling around Ukraine. I spent most of my time in the east (Donbass, Poltava and Kharkov) and sometime in Odessa as well as in Kiev. I met plenty of women from various ages during my trip (I'm going on 20 myself). I came to Ukraine thinking that the Ukrainian women are hard-working, educated and conservative house-wifes at the same time as the men are drunks who cheat all the time and leave their wifes alone with the kid(s) at the age of 25. Having spent so much time in Ukraine myself, I can say real life told me different.

    Yes, the women are highly educated (but in fact all people in Ukraine seem to have a doctor's degree...even the old man you see sleeping behind the trashbins) but in many cases it doesn't mean much, since you can easily bribe your way around at the universities.

    It's not the Ukrainian women themselves that are very conservative, it's the society since it's extremely sexist. It seems it's standard procedure for the boss to take the female applicant out for dinner and **** her before he decides if she's good for the job or not. The gender roles are very obvious in all sences and the Ukrainian girls dress really sexy only because they use their bodies as a way of getting around in the society.

    But the main surprise to me was is how the Ukrainian women regard infedelity. I can't count the times I went out with girls who wanted a little on the side even though they were married or allready had boyfriend(s). They were all very cool and upfront about it as if cheating was a natural thing. She was "together with some old guy because he was wealthy/her husband wasn't treating her good/she was going to get a divorce soon anway/her boyfriend was out of town so it was ok for her to be with me". I was often out trolling with my friend, looking for women to chat up. And it came to the point where we no longer backed away from women with rings...since we by then had come to realize marriage didn't mean much. I also met many foregin students (mainly African and Arab) who cheated on their Ukrainian girlfriends all the time, but for some reason the girls ignored it and let it go. It seemed as if they had a large acceptance of infedelity, but only because they were doing the same thing themselves.

    As a conclusion one might say that the high divorce-rates in Ukraine isn't just the fault of the men, because the women are just as bad.

    The Ukrainain women are indeed beautiful (atleast before they hit 35) and upfront they seem to have pretty sound and realistic values. But this thing about cheating really scares me. I would definatly think twice before I married a Ukrainian woman who took me because I'm a rich foreginer (which we all are since most people I met made about 25-60 US $ a month). The women are conservative in the sence that they come from a sexist country, but not in how they regard relationships outside marriage. I guess it would be different if she genuinly loved you and genuinly felt attracted to you..but all you 50-year old fat americans, how big do you think your chances are? And even the best marriage has it's flauds, it can't be perfect all the time. I once asked a pretty 17-year old girl in Poltava "If you were married and you had a fight with your husband...would you consider being intimate with another man if he oppurtunity arouse?". She didn't take long and looked at me if I had asked her something obvious and said "Yeah, why not?". The surprise here was that she was so upfront about it.

    Anyway, this is just my five cents on Ukraine and it's culture. I only spent 2Ĺ months there so I can't say my words are law. I'm sure there are plenty of exceptions and women with different views on fidelity. I'm just saying, in general (both male and female) Ukrainians have a very relaxed view on adultery.




  • #2
    Have you been to France?
    Yours truly!

    Comment


    • #3
      Stigharaldssoon I believe what you have just said and the same picture was painted about Ukrainain females by Allaturca.He also spent quite some time in Ukraine just like you.The impression I get from both of you is that there seemed to be a high incidence of adultery in Ukraine compared to any other countries and the women in Ukraine seemed to have very poor morals.Besides Allaturca who is from Turkey further adds that there are alot of Ukrainian females in Turkey involved in prostitution.I have met many female foreigners from all over the world and I find generally the famales I have met have carried themselves well and live up to their morals and integerity.Unfortunately I have not come in contact with any Ukrainain females while being abroad or even in my country Malaysia and it I just find it hard to believe but the general impression about Ukrainian females I am afraid has been the same as yours.But again since my participation in ukraine.com I have a very high opinion of those Ukrainian females who have participated here and through their posts here I they have impressed me as females of great integerity,self-respect and character and I am proud to be their friends.But again most of the females here in Ukraine.com are Ukrainians who have settled in other countries and they have within themselves a strong Ukraine culture and family ties and they are proud to be a Ukrainian.I have had the impression that the Ukrainian people are a conservative society and yet these things are quite rampant in their country.I can't understand it Stigharaldsson and if one has to blame it on poverty it just doesn't seem to fit.Besides what has poverty to do with adultery when we are talking about a conservative society with high moral,character and integerity.If that is the case than marriage diesn't seem to make any sense at all if adultery is so high in this society.if that is so then the people of Ukraine believe in free sex and to them there is no guilt whatsoever.I wish you Stigharldsson could tell me why is adultery so high in Ukraine and if it is a conservative society then why are the females of Ukraine not living up to their standards.Is it because Ukrainian women have lost the respect from the Ukrainan men or is it that the Ukrainian men do not know how to respect women as such?
      Rajkumar

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      • #4
        Hi There,

        One thing stigharaldsson got right. There is exceptions. The exception is the woman that he describe. Reading your letter I donít understand one thing. What is the reason for you and your friend to go there?. Ukraine is not on the top ten list for tourist hotspots, so why go there.Who has told you that it's standard procedure for the boss to take the female applicant out for dinner and **** her before he decides if she's good for the job or not. Maybe one person told you this and now it goes for all of them? Ukrainian girls dress really sexy because they are still woman unlike here in the west.

        About the 17-year old girl in Poltava, strange conversations you are having. Is it normal for you to talk about this kind of things. When I was down there I really was interested about the people and their country and not about sex.

        Age does not make a woman beautiful. Beauty comes from a persons hart. Did it ever occur to you that the divorce rate in the Ukraine is so high thanks to the economic situation.

        I know a lot of woman that are highly educated and guess what there papers is for real. They have top jobs here in Europe.

        I donít know who you have met down there but it is certainly not the same people I have met there. The people I have met does not fit the description in your letter. Maybe you must watch who you mix with.

        If you want to give a realistic opinion about the situation, leave all your money at home and go and live there for a year. Live like they have to, and you might come back on what you are saying. If you always lived in luxury I donít think you will last one year there. I know that I wonít.

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        • #5
          FINALLY SOME WORDS OF WISDOM

          Stigharaldsson - thank you for saying it outloud. As a Ukrainian woman living in Ukraine I can say - YOU SPEAK THE TRUTH!

          Yes, there is nothing surprising you have the boss **** you if you want to achive something. As a Ukrainian woman you have to take up so much sexual harrassment it makes you puke. Women who live by the rules of this society come to think sex and beauty is something you sell - for a chance of better life, better job, better living situation, etc. No wonder they rarely enjoy it. Those who do learn to enjoy it, learn to do so on the side. Sadly, I don't have a single (!) friend who enjoys sex in marriage. They all have lovers, friends, etc. Almost all have done it to get certaint things in life. Although all my friends are educted and professional, I'd say educated women are less prone to sleep around - they are simply more prone to be frigid because of strict "rules" imposed by the literatti culture.

          Raj, I understand your warm feelings toward Ukrainians posting here, but let us face it, this is not a society with high moral, character and integerity. People here, both men and women, are brought up to steal, cheat and manupulate. In fact, the is not even an equivalent translation for "integrity" in either Ukrainian or Russian. Speaking of morals, maybe some 70 years ago, before all the soviet crap was dumped on the country - maybe, but not now.

          And, no divorce rates have nothing to do with the economic situation. A young girl feels she needs to get married by 23. She marries the first jerk to take her, they live together for 3-5 years until either of them matures and dumps the other.

          Kaizer - The women who have top jobs in Europe and Ukraine refused to live with this culture. You should not compare apples and oranges.

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          • #6
            I am proud to note that at least SweetNovember upholds the basic qualities of a woman that is self-respect,integerity and character.Tell me something SweetNovember if poverty had nothing to do with the declining moral standards of the Ukrainian women then it is right to say that the suppression during the Russian regime could be a reason for the declining moral standards of the Ukrainian women today.Since they are now liberated there is a freedom of what these Ukrainian women feel that is modernisation and this has led them to shed the conservative beliefs and indulge in freedom of sex.Would agree with me SweetNovember? Let me explain to you more clearly.When I was studying in India I was shocked to see how the muslim girls coming from conservative and strict muslim countries behaved.They were so free and behaved liked wild animals.Of course SweetNovember they could not do the same things which they did in India back in their country because of the strict Islamic rules and thet were sort of surpressed in their country.Just imagine these muslim girls studying in India from such extremist countries with strict Islamic laws indulging in sex,alcohol and drugs.Why? Merely because they were surpressed in their contry and they had strict Islamic guidelines on morals,behaviour and even the dress code.When society has been surpressed for whatever reason whether it be religion or a regime and when freedom is given to them they are liberated from this supression and this leads them to overindulgence in anything which they have been surpressed while losing their moral values integerity and character.This to them is modernisation and freedom of sex.Sad to say in this process they lose their conservative beliefs.Tell me something aren't the people of Ukraine religious or God fearing.What religion do they practise? What is the level of spiritualism among the people of Ukraine.At one time in the U.S.A there was also was such a thing as declining moral values among the women as well as men but today spiritualism has changed all this among the people of USA and I dare to say that sex has taken a different turn all together in USA and I suppose it is done with a level of commitment and a more sacred way and it is no more a freedom of sex attitude by the people of USA.While Europe and USA heads in this direction with declining adultery the Muslim nations have a high incidence of adultery due to their supression by the strict religious teachings and enforcement.
            Rajkumar

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            • #7
              SweetNovember... you have it right. Ukraine is still stuck in Soviet mentality on the most part, and that is why people still lie and cheat and steal etc.
              This is one thing that saddens me as a Ukrainian. We as a people cannot get past what has happened to our beautiful country. We were so brain washed by the Soviet system, it seems we will never get past this.
              The issue of the women having sex with their bosses in order to get on top of the seniority ladder is something that not only happens in Europe, but I am sure it is going on in North America as well. Many people in society treat themselves as objects, and will do anything they can for power and money. The people who do this have no class, no culture, no morals...etc. It's sad, but this is reality. I truely hope that in the end, the survivial of the fittest, of those who have culture, class, morals, will out rule those that cheat and lie.

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              • #8
                Far Out Man!!!

                HiYa,

                I thought the UK was the only place that behaved like this but according to Straggenerhausen...err sorry about the name spelling friend...Ukraine is a hip hop place.
                I'm selling my flat since the real estate boom can make me rich and I'm heading for Kiev to start a business and do some dinners with prospective emplyees.
                Raj was taliking about going into business or something about a business venture in Ukraine and maybe he will go halves with me. Wow we could be like a dot.com company or something.
                Sooooo....If I settle in Ukraine and budget myself with 50 pounds per week for entertainment and sexually oriented dates then I will appear rich or something? Do I need to wear hip clothes? Do the ladies have a thing for Austin Powers?
                I cannot take a crap on 50 pounds per week but maybe I can be the rage in Ukraine.

                CameoJoe

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                • #9
                  Hello,first posting on here but thought i'd come in with my thoughts.
                  I found a similar attitude to fidelity in both Prague and Sofia,so is it an eastern european thing,tied up with the old anti-soviet attitudes?
                  Bearing the dating agency debate in mind,it is a bit of a minefield out there.
                  I intend to teach english to adults as a way of supporting myself whilst in one of the eastern countries,as the standard of living is lower,and i can be seen as a big fish in a little pond for a change.
                  There is going to be a lot more of this happening,as prices and politics in the west just make us fed up.
                  I think i'll stick to Odessa,as the lugansk region seems to be full of scammers on the dating scene.I'm emailing a girl in Odessa and she has given me her address for visa purposes,so i'll visit soon,and find out a bit more for myself.
                  Sensible comments welcome
                  Billy

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Re: Far Out Man!!!

                    Originally posted by CameoJoe
                    HiYa,

                    I thought the UK was the only place that behaved like this but according to Straggenerhausen...err sorry about the name spelling friend...Ukraine is a hip hop place.
                    I'm selling my flat since the real estate boom can make me rich and I'm heading for Kiev to start a business and do some dinners with prospective emplyees.
                    Raj was taliking about going into business or something about a business venture in Ukraine and maybe he will go halves with me. Wow we could be like a dot.com company or something.
                    Sooooo....If I settle in Ukraine and budget myself with 50 pounds per week for entertainment and sexually oriented dates then I will appear rich or something? Do I need to wear hip clothes? Do the ladies have a thing for Austin Powers?
                    I cannot take a crap on 50 pounds per week but maybe I can be the rage in Ukraine.

                    CameoJoe
                    50 quid per week... I dunno, this doesn't seem much (A nice dinner date is something like $50 for two). Stick to cheaper restaurants, or hang out in bars. Some women will be happy if you just spend on them - but you will be expected to marry in that case. If not, 50 quid is not going to enough.

                    If you want to look hip here, think GAY and you will be right. But you can figure out the clothing style. Austin is not going to fly here, try Brad Pitt or Brian Adams or Thick Wallet. Best of all, get a nice car - this always impresses local chicks.

                    Sorry for a angry post earlier. You guys make me feel like I'm living in Tailand or something. Small fish trying to look big in a small pond... he-he-he... I really feel sorry my country is an attraction to loosers.

                    [Edited by SweetNovember on 13th August 2002 at 12:49]

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Rajkumar
                      I am proud to note that at least SweetNovember upholds the basic qualities of a woman that is self-respect,integerity and character.
                      You make me blush, I didn't say anything about myself.

                      Tell me something SweetNovember if poverty had nothing to do with the declining moral standards of the Ukrainian women then it is right to say that the suppression during the Russian regime could be a reason for the declining moral standards of the Ukrainian women today.Since they are now liberated there is a freedom of what these Ukrainian women feel that is modernisation and this has led them to shed the conservative beliefs and indulge in freedom of sex. [/QUOTE]

                      I'd say the underlying cause for all this is that women rely on men to get them what they want rather then on themselves to acheive the same things. What caused it? Male shauvinism, open sexism in the society. It was never as bad here in the Soviet times as in the US before women's rights movement - women had the same access to education and had to work for the family to make the ends meet, sometimes they even were successful. Not many had a chance for an "easier" life of a housewife. Plus, the Soviet system excluded any chance of a revolt. I hope that the youger generation of today will be luckier and more ambitious. We'll see.

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        FAO "sweet november"

                        I have no wish to mount a personal attack on a senior member and get everyone else on my back in your defence, however in the uk if not elsewhere in the english speaking world,to call someone a "loser" is something of a personal attack in itself.
                        I could go on at length about my personal history and show that i in no way consider myself a loser as you describe me. Perhaps the fact that you are not a native english speaker means that you are at times unaware of the subtle differences in english words which can cause offence.
                        I have friends who are Bulgarian and Russian nationals,so i am aware of how easily words can be misunderstood.For instance 20 or 30 years ago "gay" meant only "happy",and now "sad" means more than just "unhappy" in modern street language.
                        By your standards of judging people,perhaps only rich successful businessmen could be classed as other than losers.I had my own antique business which suffered when our dear "president" Tony Blair decided that he didnt care about the tourist industry during our recent foot and mouth crisis.The lack of tourists,mainly from USA (theres a subject i could be very insulting about !) meant that many small shopkeepers and hoteliers here lost their money.
                        Perhaps in that respect i am a loser,as i lost money,but please be careful how you use our great language,as offence is easily caused.
                        My reasons for travelling abroad are because it would take several years to regain enough money to be in my previous situation,and i would like to get married and have a family,so i thought that i could take a short cut by going to a less affluent region.
                        Having been to Sofia several times i find some of the personality traits similar to what we had here many years ago,for instance the emphasis on family values which we in the west have tended to lose in our desire to chase the great gods"money" and "profit".As a not unattractive single male,i also found that i loved the slavic eyes,high cheekbones, and dark hair which is so common amongst eastern european women--that does not mean my brain is located in my genitals,i just want to wake up next to an attractive lady every morning,however shallow that sounds.
                        Now i've had my little rant,i'll await the response(s).









                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Dear Bristol-man, I might phrased what I said in a way that was way to stong for your ears. I apologize. I didn't mean you personally.
                          I have to disappoint you, my English is fine and the mistakes in my writing are just a result of the overreliance on spell-checks. I do think that salacious men coming to this country for cheap women with "traditional values"(="penniless without ability to leave their husband") are losers. I regret their presence in my country and wish Ukrainian women were forced to rely on themselves more. I happen to believe that marriage should based on equality not on exchange of services and amenities.
                          I remember working as interpreter 5 years ago and overhearing my client asking his friend whether he though he can pay to have sex with me. I also had clients who thought it was funny so many Ukrainian women wanted to get married, so they would ask me indirect questions to figure out whether I was one of such women.
                          You may regret Tony Blair's policies, I regret that I have to live in a world where salacious foreigners encourage covert prostitution. What's most infuriating in my opinion is that they lack the cultural sensitivity to tell right from wrong, so whether you a normal woman or a slut, they won't be able to tell the difference.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            ...Ok I don't really want to get in the middle of a strong word fight, but let me point this out.

                            Prostitution has been arround for years(many,many years at that), and I might actually say that in ancient times it was quiet a respected occupation. Pick from the courtesans of the Roman Empire, to the Gaishas of Rising Sun. But then again that was then. Women do have a choice, you are right, just cos a woman dresses nice....that does mean it was meant just for you, if its a short skirt, she is not a "slut", if its a elegants dress, she is not stuck up and frigid. But then if the only reason that she talks to you is for your ability to buy her drinks and the colour of your passport, you do have to ask yourself some questions.

                            I mean if I showed up in Ukraine, I would hardly just touch down, and utter the words -I am from Milan....F**k ME!

                            I would expect from my Slavic partner the same as I would of any other, intelligence, independence, and with a twist of other special qualities that make you hold your breath and say WoW..!!!

                            And thats what I think the males in this room are trying to say, that they would like that, but not at a price.

                            The conversation was not meant as an offence to any women, just some facts for some....

                            Phew......

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Holland> Yeah but who cares about the French anyway? They're just plain mad

                              Rajkumar> I think some of the reasons might lie in their soviet past and weakening of conservative sexual values as well as the state being there to back you up after a divorce.

                              Kaizer> "What is the reason for you and your friend to go there?. Ukraine is not on the top ten list for tourist hotspots, so why go there"..."When I was down there I really was interested about the people and their country and not about sex".

                              I'm male and I appologize for that. I have a sexual desire and I went to Ukraine to satisfy it. But also to see an unkown part of Europe and experience the social-realism of the former USSR. I formed my opinion about Ukrainians by speaking to all kinds of people which I socialized with for different reasons. But still, don't consider my words law since I didn't really conduct an objective poll throughout all Ukrainian citizens. And I can assure you, as a backpacker I didn't live in very luxuruous conditions. The first thing I did when I got back home was to search through my packing for cockroaches.

                              Sweet November (first post)> Yeah sure you're right on. Happy to have it confirmed since some doubts were raised about it's validity. I don't really know if it's true all Ukrainians are raised to be liars and cheats. I can't say that was my experience but then again I never really risked anything by trusting anyone.

                              Laryska> If a boss hires someone on the basis of how good that person performs in bed and nothing else. Wouldn't it be social-darwinism enough if his company went under due to unskilled personell?

                              CameoJoe> If you want I can find you a potential business partner in Ukraine. He's Australian and plans to build up a chain of youth-hostels in Ukraine and is in dire need of partners. Anyway, 50 pounds would probably take you quite a bit if that's your budget on drinks alone. A bottle of champange (Sovjetskaya) costs about two pounds a one litre of 17 % beer about 40 pennies. Anyway, spending money on drinks and food on a girl is a big must if you want to score. In fact it seemed to me like when a girl accepted that you took her out for dinner it also meant she would have sex with you afterwards. It seemed as if that's what the Ukrainian guys expected anyway. Watch out though. There are plenty of trolls, especially girlfriend's of friends or driven girls that speak exceptionally good English.

                              Bristol> Odessa is all about spending money. You'd do better and on a lesser budget in the eastern part of Ukraine and Kharkov in particular. I could reccomend you an ok hotel right in the centre where you only pay about 5 pounds a night. Anyway, before you go make sure you master some conversational Russian linguistics (even minimal) since it'll enhance your trip something immeansly. No girl will speak to you if you're opening line will be "Pa Anglayski?". And if you speak English to them they'll just ignore you all together.

                              Sweet November (second message)> I guess I'm one of those "losers" that come to Ukraine and who can't find girls back home. But this world is more than 2-dimensional as I'm sure you know. And being called a loser does hurt.

                              ToxS> Even if you did come to Ukraine and said "I'm from Milan **** Me!!" you would get a "Well **** You" back at the best. I'm telling you right now, the scene is pretty different from popular imagination in the West.

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