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  • Respect

    I have red a lot of stories about men that think they know Ukraine/Russian woman. It is just sad to read about all the remarks made about these woman. I think the problem lies with the men looking for woman to be their perfect bride. Sure enough there is woman that is not honest but the same goes to some men. They have such high expectations about this and that is where things goes wrong. Once they found a beautiful woman they expect these woman to kiss the ground they walk on. They think these woman should be forever grateful because they were poor and look at the super lives they have now. They then think they can start treating these woman as objects and not give them the love and respect that they deserve. What do they expect, a happy marriage?.

    I am not a expert but would like to tell my story. I just went true a divorce and was in quiet a mess. On a day I was bored and was looking for a chat site. I then started chatting with a woman from the Ukraine. We chatted for a couple of months before I actually called her by telephone. I only saw her as a friend and not more. On a day I decided to go for a vacation to the Ukraine with her. I then only ask her for a photo to be able to recognize her at the airport. She was beautiful but the main thing was that I made a friend. Going there I had a wonderful time and our friendship turned to a relationship. It was great for the simple reason that I did not had any expectations about us.

    Coming home we decided together that she will come and live with me. I told her that I could not afford flying up and down but I want to be with her. We made it very clear to each other what we expect from each other and what we want from this relationship. Basically both of us just wanted mutual respect and love. After two years living together we decided to get married. We are married now for eight months and it is great.

    Basically what I am trying to say is that if you would respect them as a woman and not as a desperate sorry case you will get respect and love back. Maybe worth considering before you start with a relationship.


  • #2
    self advertising


    Kaizer,

    Welcome on Ukraine.com and thanks for sharing your own experience. You'll find out reading the past threads most of us (if not all)agree with your conclusion.

    A few will post threads such as "Frenchman, in good condition, desperate to meet the Ukrainian love of his life" or " Californian, tired of his surfboard's company, would do anything to even talk to an Ukrainian woman", but usually these guys disappear from this web as fast as they arrive.

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    • #3
      Help me out here Kaizer,What say you Wiseman Donquichotte

      Kaizer,I am happy things turned out well for you in this manner.You have further added that you must respect them as woman and not as a desperate sorry case than only you will get the respect and love back from them.Then it would be true to say that you must respect them as woman and not pity them to get the respect and love from them.So when you have pity on a woman you don't expect the woman to respect you in return.If that is so tell me Kaizer what are the things you look for in a woman to respect them? I am sure it is character,self respect and integerity being the main criteria you will look for a woman to respect followed by many others dependind on what else we look for in a woman to respect her as such.Why can't it be pity in a woman? Of course you can't take pity as a criteria to respect a woman but one could take pity on a woman to love and care for her.I am confused here Kaizer on pity or what you call a desperate sorry case of such woman and yet to me I would respect her as what she is and still take care of her and love her.That's what I did Kaizer on my woman I pitied on her and married her but sad to say it ended in a divorce.So there must be some truth in what you are trying to say Kaizer and it would be a great help if you make me undrestand exactly what you mean.Donquichotte I am sure Kaizer is trying to tell me at least something.Kaizer one wiseman told me "To love someone is to enable the person to hurt you, to become vulnerable to this one person,the risk is high,so is the reward,the end of quest is just the begining of real difficulties ahead of you and the fight is over -marriage is celebrated." What do you think of these wise words said by this wiseman Kaizer?
      Rajkumar

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      • #4
        Re: Help me out here Kaizer,What say you Wiseman Donquichotte

        First I would like to say I am sorry things did not work out for you. You are right that I said respect them as a woman. Personally I don’t agree in what you have said: “Why can’t it be pity in a woman”. Why should you pity them. It would be a different story if you want to help someone, but in our case we want to share our life’s with them. It goes without saying that character, self respect and integrity is one of the ingredients you would look for in a relationship.

        Thru my wife I met a lot of Ukraine/Russian woman and there partners. I am still shocked in the things I hear from the partners. Things like “they should be grateful that I took them from there, and look at the luxury they have here ect”. The worst of it all is that this is not isolated incidents. I have heard and red about this sort of thing a lot of times. I always tell people to look at it from the other side. You should be happy that she is willing to share her life with you. Before I met my wife I had and still have everything, house, two cars, good job ect. I am of course grateful for that but my life was empty. What is life if you can’t share it with somebody you love.

        As far as what the wise man told you, I don’t agree with it. I have always been taught to leave every person in their own value. If you do that you have already won this persons respect.


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        • #5
          The wiseman is always right for he is the wiseman

          Kaizer is trying to tell me at least something.Kaizer one wiseman told me "To love someone is to enable the person to hurt you, to become vulnerable to this one person,the risk is high,so is the reward,the end of quest is just the begining of real difficulties ahead of you and the fight is over -marriage is celebrated." What do you think of these wise words said by this wiseman Kaizer? [/B][/QUOTE]


          Good morning Raj,
          Hi Kaizer,
          I have been away for the past few days and could not answer sooner.
          I believe we have here massive cases of misunderstanding between Kaizer and us.(otherwise he would not disagree with the wiseman).

          Taking persons for their own value is not contradictory with the idea of being vulnerable at all.

          First of all, to find out the real value of a person takes time (at first all you have is face value) and can lead to many mistakes if you're a bit fast in judging them.

          And then, if that "special" person cannot hurt you, how can you say you care for her, not even to say you're in love.
          You can respect someone, take him/her for what she is, not perfect most likely, and yet be hurt by something he/she will do to you.
          If you are untouched, unmoved, then you're not in love,cynicism has taken over and you are just enjoying whatever benefit you can grab from a relationship waiting for its necessary end.
          If knowledge of what the other person is worth has nothing to do, it can be about the loss of self respect in some extreme cases : One can fully appreciate how unbalanced, mean one woman/man can be, and still love her/him despite that no matter how hard he/she will be hit.

          But that cannot last and eventually he/she will get rid of the other person.


          As for the difficulties connected to love and time, well Kaizer if you went through a tough divorce I am sure you know better than anyone what this is all about.

          Comment


          • #6
            Kaizer,you have made me understand something and that's how I did react to my wife at certain times but not at all times.It was the manner your friends often said to you and I did the same.You have made me realise this important fact that one should never at all behave in this manner to a woman whom we pitied or to the women of a desperate sorry case."They should be grateful that I took them from there"is often said to my wife at certain times but not at all times and that too Kaizer at certain situations.Donquichotte my wiseman, Kaizer has driven a point right to my brains by that statements made not only by his friends but sad to say also by me.Donquichotte please listen to my side with my wife.Whenever things don't go my way or in any missunderstandings with my wife I am quick to react in the manner what Kaizer had just pointed out.I would often say it this way to my wife and deep within me this is what I felt that "" after all she is a woman of poverty and there is no appreciation from her.""How ungrateful can she be"."She has shown her true colours" This is how I often felt and said not only to my ex-wife but also to my friends about my ex-wife whenever I had a problem with my ex-wife..Besides these statements were always said when things don't go the way I wanted with my ex-wife or in any misunderstandings with her.All this was said to my wife just because I expected it my way with my wife and when she reacts in such a manner which was not expected from her, I take her poverty as an excuse and even up with her just to hurt her.I was taking advantage of her poverty and took it as an excuse to even up with her.I was demanding respect from her in other words and her poverty was a sort of criteria which made me demand the respect for me.You are right Kaizer that's not the way to behave,react or demand a respect from a woman of poverty or a sorry desperate case.Can you see it now Donquichotte on what Kaizer is trying to say.To be very honest Kaizer it was never my intention to behave this way with my ex-wife but the reaction to me in such a manner to my ex-wife seems like a natural human reaction though it is wrong.I suppose if I had married a girl of my status I wouldn't have reacted in this manner.That's what my wife would always say in return that if she was from the same status as me I would not of treated her in this manner.At that time I never realised this Kaizer and you are right to point out this thing to me and what you thought of your friends in the same situation like me you are right in every way.Thanks Kaizer and I will learn this valuable lesson you taught me but this attitude will thake sometime to change from me but I will make all attempts to change it.Laryska maybe just maybe the spark I am looking for is right there.But my wiseman Donquichotte will not have reacted the way I reacted to such woman.Whatever it maybe but Donquichotte has wise words and I only wish he could tell his part of his story with the woman he loved.Something tells me that those wise words of his is from the experience with the women he is or was in love.Donquichotte tell me who are you after all? Hope Laryska will agree on this about Donquichotte.
            Rajkumar

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            • #7
              Respect

              Hi Donquichotte and Rajkumar,

              Donquichotte reading your letter all I can do is agree with you. This is really some wise words and it had me thinking. I have never look at it from that way.


              Rajkumar I know that all of us said things to our love ones that never should have been said. But from your mistakes you learn. I like this site because it is nice reading about other peoples views. I am sure that all of us can learn from each other.

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              • #8
                The truth lies in the silences in between words

                there.But my wiseman Donquichotte will not have reacted the way I reacted to such woman.Whatever it maybe but Donquichotte has wise words and I only wish he could .Something tells me that those wise words of his is from the experience with the women he is or was in love.Donquichotte tell me who are you after all? Hope Laryska will agree on this about Donquichotte. [/B][/QUOTE]

                Dear Raj,

                Was I ? probably once. I did gain experience.For a price way beyond my means.
                Am I ? no.
                Trying to avoid ? yes, and if along that line of conduct, I have recently upset someone special after a temporary "loss" of self-control,it was intended but not meant.

                As for who I am, like anyone else the answer will vary according to whom the question is asked, and I am the least qualified, being too close to the subject, to give a proper definition.

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                • #9
                  Love, a strange and powerful thing

                  I just skimmed over all of these posts....
                  The main idea I get behind all of these comments is that we are trying to define love. I think love is different for everyone, and people express their love to one another very differently.
                  I have found that sometimes those that we love the most, we can hurt the most. I know that if I was arguing with my sister, I would intentionally tell her hurtful things. This is because I know her better than anyone else does, and I know exactly which buttons to push. I love her, and this love can sometimes go in the negative dirrection. However, if I was arguing with an accquiantance I would not be as forceful, and probably wouldn't hurt the person that much.
                  The point is, love can be dangerous and hurtful very often. But we as human beings have to realize the hurt and pain we cause our loved ones, and correct our behaviors.
                  The comments made about pittying a women.. I don't really understand. Perhaps I should read more carefuly. I believe that you would pitty someone who is suffering, misguided, etc. But the idea of pittying a woman just because she is a woman, and she " doesn't know any better" does not sit well with me. I don't think that is fair. Maybe this is not what you all were talking about. But I decided to share my thoughts anyways.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Laryska,pittying a woman is actually pittying a woman because of the circumstances she is in.This is what I meant when I said about pittying a woman.Pittying a woman does not in any way refer to a woman being inferior.So don't misunderstand me as I have the highest respect for women.I took pity on a woman because of the circumstances she was in and that was poverty.Like you have said pittying a woman may also include sufferings or she has been misguided.Pittying itself is an emotional factor and to me pittying a woman aroses my emotional feeling and to me it can be a feeling of love.That's how I feel when I pity a woman and it sort of stirrs my feeling towards her.Why can't this feeling of pity towards a woman which itself is an emotional feeling be considered a feeling of love? I am sure many of you will disagree with me but to me I still consider it a feeling of love because it stirrs my emotions and this makes me want to know her further.That feeling of pity to me is the begining of my love towards her.I really don't know how to make you understand this Laryska but when the feeling of pity on a woman is developed on me it makes me want to know her better.I hope this explains it.It may sound crazy but when that feeling of pity is naturally developed within me I just feel that I am in love with a woman.How's that Laryska, Kaizer and Donquichotte? It looks silly but to me thats how it is with a woman whom I fall for or in love with.When I have this feeling of pity on a woman than I feel I am in love.This feeling of pity goes beyond just poverty.The feeling of pity on a woman may also be from the sufferings she is undergoing such as being terminally ill ,betrayal by others,depressed for reasons known to her or whatever emotional problems she is undergoing.All of these mentioned above are sufferings on a woman and this sufferings creates a feeling of pity towards the woman in such a way that I develop a feeling of love towards them.Unless I have this feeling of pity on a woman than only can I love them.Anyway I am trying to express my feelings of love towards a woman and I don't seem to get it right I suppose.My friends always laugh at me whenever I tell my feelings of love for a woman that is pity and I always tell myself that I will never ever get in any conversation of love with my friends as their laughter on what I have to say about my love is like I am not a man to their eyes.But here I go again telling you all what makes me love a woman but all I ask you all is not to laugh at me or look down at me but make me understand that pity is not love.At least I aknowledge what Kaizer had said I should respect a woman for what she is and not treat her the way I and his friends did just because of her circumstances.Donquichotte I wonder who is that woman whom you upsetted after a temporary loss of self control,though it was intended but not meant.How very nice the way you put it Donquichotte.The woman was someone special to you,the woman you were hidding the feelings of love towards her,for Donquichotte is one man who wants to be sure of himself and expressing that feeling he had on this woman, Donquichotte felt within himself that it is a weakness by him and this weakness which he was developing in himself was a defeat to him as he had always felt that he was a strong minded person and an emotionally strong man.The weakness Donquichotte was developing in him was affecting him physically and emotionally and there was a conflict in him now.To Donquichotte this love he had for the woman was already affecting him and Donquichotte was't ready to accept this fact that he was now in love.Donquichotte tried to destroy this feeling of love for this woman in every manner possible but it was just impossible as he was destroying himself in the process.The love for that woman was getting stronger and stronger and eveytime he wanted to erase this woman from his mind he only reached his hands for the phone just to hear from her and this made him better both physically and mentally.That woman Donquichotte was in love knew very well the love he had for her but one day when that same woman told Donquichotte that she knows how deep was Donquichotte's love for her,Donquichotte lost his cool for he could not accept the fact the woman has already known his intense love for her and to Donquichotte this was a weakness he had exposed to her though hidding it so well from her and Donquichotte lost his self control and denied the love he had for her.When this happened Donquichotte without knowingly passed a few uncalled remarks to her and that upsetted her very badly.When she hung up Donquichotte realised that he had hurt her so badly that he only wished he could have explained it better to her and clear the misunderstanding.But to Donquichotte his readiness to clear the misunderstanding with her is a conflict in him whether to do it or not.So goes Donquichotte with this in mind,asking himself each day whether or not to phone her and clarify the issue.For Donquichotte phoning her again souds like a wakness he has for her and till today Donquichotte has this confusion within him.You must remember Donquichotte is a man who does not like to show any weakness whatsoever to a woman and he is a strong minded man.There was the element of "intended" and that was to tell her that he did not love her but deep within Dinquichotte he loved her so much and this makes me conclude that Donquichotte never meant it.With this my wiseman is my conclusions on what you said in your posting and I have got the answers like you said through thise hidden words in your posting.Understanding in betweem and in those words of yours-the hidden meaning and the answers about you I seeked and got.your expert comments Donquichotte on my analysis is very much appreciated.Thank You
                    Rajkumar

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                    • #11
                      [
                      Good Morning Raj,

                      And congratulations for thorough analysis, though I have to slightly correct it.

                      Fighting back feelings is more likely the case when you are not emotionally strong, or did get carried away by totally irrational factors.(imagination being the most lethal of all)

                      As for true pity, not the one based on superiority but on the dislike of other people suffering, it has one common thing with love, and that is caring for someone else beyond oneself, but other than that its not the same and misatking one for the other can only lead to disaster once the reason for which you pitied a person has disappeared because you cured it.

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                      • #12
                        Understood

                        Raj,
                        Now I understand what you meant by pittying a woman. What it is, is you feel sorry and deeply fall in love with those women who have struggled in their lives. I see in you have loving, and giving spirit. There is nothing wrong with this. I would not really call this pittying. I always feel pity has a negative conotation. YOu simply are a giving person, who picks up on people who are in need. It seems to me you have been doing this your whole life, and sometimes many who you have helped have not appreciated your love for them, and have taken advantage of you. This is sad, but like a previously mentioned I understand how this feels. I recently helped my sister move into her new home. I helped un pack her things, I cleaned most of her place for her... And when she had a party celebrating her new home and engagement I prepared some of the meal, and when she was too busy with other things I took over and was the hostess for the evening. The point is, at the end of the night I was so tired, that I decided I would stay over at her place. Instead of her giving me a nice bed to sleep on, she gave it to her fiancee, and I ended up sleeping on the floor. I am very hurt by this. I was a guest in her new home, and she gave me the floor to sleep on ( I also washed this floor). Her fiancee had the nerve to gloat and ask how well I slept on the floor.
                        Anyways, I too know what it is like to be hurt by someone you love and care about. I was put second best, and maybe I should accept this, but I know I would never treat a guest in this manner. Ever since my sister got engaged it seems I have drifted farther and farther apart from her.. and it seems I have almost lost respect for her.
                        Anyways.... I have gotten side tracked with my own issues, and this was not the point.
                        Rajkumar, I don't think that the way you care, and feel sorry for women is something to laugh about. I am sure your other male friends probably do not value women as much as you do. They cannot grasp why you care for those who are struggling or in need of love. I get the feeling that you respect women who have been challenged in their lives, you respect their courage, and this is a very good thing.
                        With my relationships with men, I am currently not seeking any sort of "soul" mate. I just want to have fun right now. But I know in the past it always seems that those men who love me, I end up not loving at all. And those that I do adore, they do not show the same for me. I have been humiliated many times... but I pick up the pieces,and keep on getting stronger and stronger.

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                        • #13
                          "For each man kills the thing he loves" (O. Wilde)

                          I have found that sometimes those that we love the most, we can hurt the most. I love her, and this love can sometimes go in the negative dirrection. But I decided to share my thoughts anyways. [/B][/QUOTE]

                          Hurting the ones we love can be a way of reassessing the strength of their love for us, and that is bad, or trying to make them part from us for our/their own sake, to make them/us less dependant, and I am not sure it is more acceptable.
                          And then sometimes you'll hurt someone because you are simply underestimating the strength of his love,thus not realizing the pain you've created.
                          Adjusting one's behavior is not easy when every word or gesture (or lack of) can hurt even unintentionally.

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Re: Understood

                            Originally posted by Laryska
                            Raj,
                            But I know in the past it always seems that those men who love me, I end up not loving at all. And those that I do adore, they do not show the same for me. I have been humiliated many times... but I pick up the pieces,and keep on getting stronger and stronger.

                            Laryska,

                            Everyone wants what they can't have or seems out of reach, that's the oldest and first rule of the game.

                            To show indifference until the other one reveals his interest for you, as whoever shows his interest first has lost a decisive advantage, that is rule number two.

                            To always keep in focus that this is a game, and one should not get too emotionally involved at the beginning is rule number three.(especially at your young age)
                            Rule number three will help you enforce rule number two

                            Always remember these three rules and you'll do fine and you'll win most times.

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Laryska you have put the pieces together for me on what I was trying to say that when I have the feelings of pity on a woman I tend to fall in love with her.Yes Laryska I deeply fall in love with woman who are struggling in their lives.In return the least I expect from them is an appreciation but sad to say I never got that.Instead of me giving them a life they take my life in the process.Sometimes it may sound to others that I pity woman and fall in love with them just to exploit them and take advantage of their weakness.That's what my friends feel about me but that's not true.Deep within me my true intentions is to share what I have and to give such woman with such circumstances or the desperate sorry cases (Kaizer's words)a better life and to take them away from their present miseries or sufferings.I always felt it this way with woman with such sufferings and they touch my heart that I become so soft to them always pleasing them just to make them happy and to give them all what they have been deprived in life.Guess I paid for it the hard way and that was a marriage which ended in a divorce.But my conscience is clear and I continue my life hoping for that spark Laryska.I have gone through Donquichotte's statements that is "Hurting the one's we love can be a way of reassessing the strength of their love for us,that is bad,trying to make them part of us for our/their own sake,to make them/us less dependent,I am not sure it is more acceptable",and I am failing to understand exactly what you mean Donquichotte.Would you be kind enough to elaborate more on this so that this poor soul like me can figure it out.The second paragraph of Donquichotte's statement is what we have to be careful in a relationship of love."Most of the times we hurt someone just because we are underestimating the srength of his or her love,thus not realising the pain we have created".Well said Donquichotte and to add to it like you said it simply is "though it was intended but never meant".All this comes about when we want to test the love the other has for us.In the process of testing the love which amounts to doubting the love the other has for us we tend to either question the other directly with such questions like-"Honey how much do you love me,My dear do you really love me,How do I know that you really love me and not Donquichotte or Kaizer,Your actions don't prove your love for me,How do I know that you love me and not because of my money or prove it to me that you really love me.Questions like this is doubting the love of the other and such questions in a relationship of love can only hurt the other however best he or she shows his or her love for one another.Doubt in a relationship of love is hurting the other.If one has such a feeling of doubt in a love relationship one tends to become insecured and this leads to a sort of jealousy and suspiciousness and finally loss of self-control and the ultimate is flare of temper.It is the feeling of doubt that hurts the other in a love relationship.Remedy for such a situation when you have doubt is to come out of it or just simply end it politely.But again is it not human to have doubts of the other in a relationship of love? Please answer me.I will come back to you all on how Donquichotte's statement of "behaviour" in love and how does it hurt.
                              Rajkumar

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