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  • Prokopetz/Schullmann (Bukovina)

    Hi, about a year ago or so I made an account and was going to post but for some reason i couldn't and i just got an email from the new admin saying my account was now active so I thought i'd go ahead and try now. Basically i'm wondering if its possible to find any living relatives in Ukraine even though it might be too far back. Here is my info/story:

    My great grandfather and his siblings/parents came to Canada from the village of Drachyntsi in Bukovina in 1901. His name was Mikhailo Prokopets and his father was Grigori Prokopets and mother Waselka Koshurba. Now someone told me Waselka isn't a Ukrainian name that's just what was written on the passenger manifest. I did find his sister Maria born 1884 in the Drachyntsi Orthodox church books here - https://i.imgur.com/EFUeKg1.jpg. The writing is in Romanian so i'm not sure of the mothers first name for sure. My Mikalio was born 1890-1892 and his other sister born 1893. Oddly I couldnt find them in the church books...there was a Mikhailo Prokopets in 1890 but with different parents it seemed. Anyways now my great-grandmother:

    My great grandmother was Zoica Schullmann born in 1894 in the village of Chornivka which is close to Drachinets in nothern Bukovina as well. Her father was George Schullmann and mother Elena Dary (tho i'm not sure what kind of surname Dary is?). Here is her record in the Chornivka Orthodox church books - https://i.imgur.com/eIrqIlU.jpg. Her father i think was born in Vienna as i matched one of his grand-daughters on myheritage (DNA) and she had him born there. My great-uncle also wrote a memoir saying he was from "Austria" when he said "Bukovina" for everyone else. So i guess that could explain the Germanic surname. I'm not sure how he got to Bukovina but he was also in the 9th Dragoon Regiment of the Austrian Army around 1880 for a few years and it seems they recruited in Galacia and Bukovina. Anyways i tried searching on facebook and found a couple Prokopets in Drachyntsi but they never responded to my message.

    So i'm just wondering if anyone has any ideas or any more info on the areas they're from. I did do googling of course and i tried looking in the Ukraine phone book that Hannia i think posted in another thread but there was no Bukovina region to chose from? Unless I missed something. Lastly i left a picutre of Zoica here: https://i.imgur.com/xkKmxI9.jpg. I added a bit of color and it's probably one of my favorite pictures.

  • #2
    Hi bullocks,

    Glad to see that this website has been resurrected and under new management. Equally glad to see that new members are joining the Genealogy forum!

    You pose some good questions and I would like to respond to them. In addition, I have information from the church records that should also address some of your questions.

    Today is going to be a busy day for me, so my time will be limited until later in the evening. Please be patient, and I will get back to you.

    Regards,

    Richard

    Φ!

    Comment


    • #3
      Originally posted by rwf View Post
      Hi bullocks,

      Glad to see that this website has been resurrected and under new management. Equally glad to see that new members are joining the Genealogy forum!

      You pose some good questions and I would like to respond to them. In addition, I have information from the church records that should also address some of your questions.

      Today is going to be a busy day for me, so my time will be limited until later in the evening. Please be patient, and I will get back to you.

      Regards,

      Richard
      Sure just respond when you can, thanks!

      Comment


      • #4
        Hi bullocks,

        I quickly reviewed the Orthodox church records from Chornivka, and found information regarding Zoica's lineage.

        These records are now available online from the FamilySearch website. In order to view the records, you must be registered with a free FamilySearch account. To register, visit https://www.familysearch.org/register, then log in with your account credentials and click on the links I provided below.

        Birth -- 1894 -- Zoica Shulman: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS9T-PKLK?i=349&cat=1389882 (item #54 in first column)

        Marriage -- 1884 -- Zoica's parents, Georgie (George) Shulman and Ileana (Eleana) Dari: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...16&cat=1389882 (item #9 in first column)

        Birth -- 1858 -- Zoica's father, Georgie (George) Shulman: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...32&cat=1389882 (6th entry from the top)

        Marriage -- 1843 -- Zoica's paternal grandparents, Konstantin Shulman and Aksenia Martenuk: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...=8&cat=1389882 (2nd last entry from the bottom)

        Birth -- 1864 -- Zoica's mother, Ileana (Eleana) Dari: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...85&cat=1389882 (3rd entry from the top)

        Marriage -- 1854 -- Zoica's maternal grandparents, Ilie Dari and Maritsa Chebrer: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...30&cat=1389882 (last entry on the bottom)

        I will get around to responding to your questions and observations in due course.

        Regards,

        Richard

        Φ!

        Comment


        • #5
          Originally posted by rwf View Post
          Hi bullocks,

          I quickly reviewed the Orthodox church records from Chornivka, and found information regarding Zoica's lineage.

          These records are now available online from the FamilySearch website. In order to view the records, you must be registered with a free FamilySearch account. To register, visit https://www.familysearch.org/register, then log in with your account credentials and click on the links I provided below.

          Birth -- 1894 -- Zoica Shulman: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61903/3:1:3Q9M-CS9T-PKLK?i=349&cat=1389882 (item #54 in first column)

          Marriage -- 1884 -- Zoica's parents, Georgie (George) Shulman and Ileana (Eleana) Dari: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...16&cat=1389882 (item #9 in first column)

          Birth -- 1858 -- Zoica's father, Georgie (George) Shulman: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...32&cat=1389882 (6th entry from the top)

          Marriage -- 1843 -- Zoica's paternal grandparents, Konstantin Shulman and Aksenia Martenuk: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...=8&cat=1389882 (2nd last entry from the bottom)

          Birth -- 1864 -- Zoica's mother, Ileana (Eleana) Dari: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...85&cat=1389882 (3rd entry from the top)

          Marriage -- 1854 -- Zoica's maternal grandparents, Ilie Dari and Maritsa Chebrer: https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...30&cat=1389882 (last entry on the bottom)

          I will get around to responding to your questions and observations in due course.

          Regards,

          Richard
          Wow, interesting. I guess George's grand-daughter was wrong about his birth place. I did see that record before but a document I have on the 1940 Canadian residents said he was born March 1858 and his grand-daughter has March 28. Does that say January 27? He did list his and his parents birth places as Chornivka so I should have just went with that. I guess it makes more sense as I wondered why/how he'd go to Bukovina from Vienna. That's some good info on Zoica's grand-parents though. Maybe if you want to look at the Drachyntsi church books as well incase i missed a Mikhailo around 1892 and Efrozina in 1893 (though don't think i did). Also i think Grigori was born in 1850 and Waselka 1861.
          Last edited by bullocks; 22nd January 2019, 02:57.

          Comment


          • #6
            Bullocks, you are getting invaluable help from Richard. If I remember correctly Richard is a descendent of Bukovynian heritage.

            I only have one thing to add, which should be helpful to you.

            < Waselka Koshurba. Now someone told me Waselka isn't a Ukrainian name>

            According to metrykal/baptismal documentation the given name is Waselina, daughter of Nikolai/Mykola Kosturba. Waselina is a feminine version of Wasyl/Basil and is Ukrainian.

            æ, !

            Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

            Comment


            • #7
              Originally posted by Hannia View Post
              Bullocks, you are getting invaluable help from Richard. If I remember correctly Richard is a descendent of Bukovynian heritage.

              I only have one thing to add, which should be helpful to you.

              < Waselka Koshurba. Now someone told me Waselka isn't a Ukrainian name>

              According to metrykal/baptismal documentation the given name is Waselina, daughter of Nikolai/Mykola Kosturba. Waselina is a feminine version of Wasyl/Basil and is Ukrainian.
              Yes it actually looks like Waselina in the record

              Comment


              • #8
                Hi bullocks and Hannia,

                Thanks for the endorsement, Hannia. Indeed, I am of Bukovynian heritage on my mother's side.

                A few comments/observations on my part, bullocks:

                wondering if its possible to find any living relatives in Ukraine even though it might be too far back
                Yes, in many cases it is possible to find distant relatives. It has been my experience that you will need to do the research and leg work first in order to show your distant relatives exactly how and through whom you are related. Many of them will have no knowledge of a relative who left their village some 120+ years ago to immigrate to Canada, the USA, or South America. The other thing that you should be prepared for is that some of your distant relatives may not share your passion for genealogy, and may therefore be disinterested in learning about their family history. This may explain why you have not had any response to your Facebook messages. Once you have documented sufficient information about your lineage, you can look into the possibility of having somebody visit or contact the village to locate your relatives and to arrange a Skype webcam meeting with them. I have a contact in Chernivtsi who may be able to do this on your behalf, although there would be a nominal cost to you for his services.

                someone told me Waselka isn't a Ukrainian name
                Whoever told you that was misinformed. No matter how one transliterates the name -- Waselka, Vaselka, Vaselca, Wasilka, Vasilka, Wasylka or Vasylka -- they are all diminutive forms of the very Ukrainian name, Vasylyna or Wasylyna (). When used as a first name, this nickname is a term of endearment that means "little Vasylyna".

                The writing is in Romanian so i'm not sure of the mothers first name for sure
                In the church record, her first name is written as "Vasilina" which is the Romanian representation of the name using the Roman (Latin) alphabet. In Ukrainian, her name is (Vasylyna or Wasylyna), as noted above.

                More to follow later.

                Richard
                Last edited by rwf; 22nd January 2019, 09:36.

                Φ!

                Comment


                • #9
                  Originally posted by rwf View Post
                  Hi bullocks and Hannia,

                  Thanks for the endorsement, Hannia. Indeed, I am of Bukovynian heritage on my mother's side.

                  A few comments/observations on my part, bullocks:

                  Yes, in many cases it is possible to find distant relatives. It has been my experience that you will need to do the research and leg work first in order to show your distant relatives exactly how and through whom you are related. Many of them will have no knowledge of a relative who left their village some 120+ years ago to immigrate to Canada, the USA, or South America. The other thing that you should be prepared for is that some of your distant relatives may not share your passion for genealogy, and may therefore be disinterested in learning about their family history. This may explain why you have not had any response to your Facebook messages. Once you have documented sufficient information about your lineage, you can look into the possibility of having somebody visit or contact the village to locate your relatives and to arrange a Skype webcam meeting with them. I have a contact in Chernivtsi who may be able to do this on your behalf, although there would be a nominal cost to you for his services.

                  Whoever told you that was misinformed. No matter how one transliterates the name -- Waselka, Vaselka, Vaselca, Wasilka, Vasilka, Wasylka or Vasylka -- they are all diminutive forms of the very Ukrainian name, Vasylyna or Wasylyna (). When used as a first name, this nickname is a term of endearment that means "little Vasylyna".

                  In the church record, her first name is written as "Vasilina" which is the Romanian representation of the name using the Roman (Latin) alphabet. In Ukrainian, her name is (Vasylyna or Wasylyna), as noted above.

                  More to follow later.

                  Richard
                  Okay good information. Was the guy from Chernivtsi on here before? I did talk to someone from here back when I first got this account via. email but only briefly.

                  Here is my family tree so far going back from my grandfather: https://imgur.com/a/2EV1ybw

                  I did notice you were from Toronto, I am as well. Thanks for all the help so far.

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Thought you might enjoy viewing following...

                    Ӧ - Bukowynian Wedding
                    Video made in selo Toporivtsi > Novoselytskij raion> Chernivtsi oblast.
                    https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzGr...5Z1zo&index=14

                    æ, !

                    Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Originally posted by Hannia View Post
                      Thought you might enjoy viewing following...

                      Ӧ - Bukowynian Wedding
                      Video made in selo Toporivtsi > Novoselytskij raion> Chernivtsi oblast.
                      https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SzGr...5Z1zo&index=14
                      Thanks Ill have a look!

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Originally posted by bullocks View Post

                        Was the guy from Chernivtsi on here before? I did talk to someone from here back when I first got this account via. email but only briefly.
                        He does have an account on Ukraine.com. It's ace-interpreter, and his name is Vasyl Kuzyk. I haven't seen him on here much lately, but I do maintain contact with him.

                        Richard

                        Φ!

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Originally posted by rwf View Post

                          He does have an account on Ukraine.com. It's ace-interpreter, and his name is Vasyl Kuzyk. I haven't seen him on here much lately, but I do maintain contact with him.

                          Richard
                          Hi I was looking through some notes from before and there was a Grigori Prokopets born in 1852 in Drachyntsi even though his daughter said he was born in 1850
                          https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...23&cat=1345546 - Born on the 24th January 1852 and baptized on 28th January. Do you figure this is the right one?

                          Also a Dominka born in 1860 to Nikolai and Irina Koshurba. These were Waselka's parents on her marriage record and supposedly she was born in 1860 but here it says Dominka?
                          https://imgur.com/a/HHODgUK

                          What do you think?

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Originally posted by bullocks View Post
                            there was a Grigori Prokopets born in 1852 in Drachyntsi even though his daughter said he was born in 1850
                            https://www.familysearch.org/ark:/61...23&cat=1345546 - Born on the 24th January 1852 and baptized on 28th January. Do you figure this is the right one?
                            Hi bullocks,

                            Dates of birth/age at the time of immigration are often imprecise. When my g-grandfather arrived in Canada, the passenger list documented his year of birth as 1859. His grave marker indicates 1857, yet he was born in 1855 according to the metrical records. I learned this only by examining all birth records for a 10-year span, from 1854-1864.

                            The record you have for 1852 could possibly be the Grigori in your line of ascendants. Unless you already knew the names of Grigori's parents, I'd suggest that you examine all of the Drachyntsi birth records from at least 1847-1853 to see if there were any other births for a Grigori Prokopets. This surname was quite prolific in Drachyntsi at the time, so you want to be certain that you have identified the correct individual.

                            Note the house number as well it tells a story about our ancestral family. In many cases, you will find several generations from the same family who were born, married and died in their ancestral home.

                            Originally posted by bullocks View Post
                            Also a Dominka born in 1860 to Nikolai and Irina Koshurba. These were Waselka's parents on her marriage record and supposedly she was born in 1860 but here it says Dominka? [url]https://imgur.com/a/HHODgUK[/url]
                            Likewise, my suggestion to you would be to examine all of the Drachyntsi birth records from at least 1857-1863 to see if you can find a Waselka who was born to the same parents, in the same house. (Look for Wasyslyna or some variant thereof). Domnika and Waselka (Wasylyna) are two distinct names so it's unlikely that the names would be used interchangeably for the same person. It seems to me like Domnika and Waselka may have been sisters.

                            Regards,

                            Richard

                            Φ!

                            Comment

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