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  • search for information 1934

    Hi, I know I, m looking for the impossible but looking for any information about what happened to my dads parents or anything on the area he was born. I dont have much to go on. His parents surname was Pohuliev I think, they dissapeared in 1934ish when he was approx.5 years old. His mother was Persian, his parents met when his father was in Persia he thinks he was a soldier. After that he lived with Jacov and Rosa Krukov in a village just outside kiev. It was the last tram stop before the forest and a holiday camp? He went to school that was next door to a naval academy in Podol he wore a white uniform, this is where he was taken from when the germans invaded and put on a train to germany with 4 other boys. Any information would be wonderful.

  • #2
    Helen, have you contacted the German Archives?

    æ, !

    Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

    Comment


    • #3
      No had not thought to, I know my dad ended up at buckenwald then a farm in germany.

      Comment


      • #4
        Please be patient.

        I need to put some time lines together for us to follow.

        In the 1930's the Kyev/Kyiv region suffered terribly from famine and stalinization. The Great Famine (Holodomir) concocted by Stalin occurred in 1932-1933. In 1934 the capital of the Soviet Union was moved from Kharkov/Kharkiv to Kyev/Kyiv. The political-social emphasis was on the proletarization of the population. The mass executions and the troika trials came in the late 1930's.

        Was the family Jewish or Russian Orthodox? The feel of the surname is Belarusyn???

        In 1932-33 it was the Christian kulaks (comfortable landowners), who were targeted.

        In 1934 Stalin was very busy bulldozing Jewish intellectuals and herding them into the gulags.

        In the late 30's Stalin went after clergy of all religions.
        ===========================================================
        Russia had since long established forces in the region. The Persian Cossack Brigade and a small Russian contingent of the Russian Caucasus Army under the Armenian General Tovmas Nazarbekian existed in the region. The Cossack Brigade consisted of 8 squadrons, 1 small battalion of infantry and a horse battery of 6 Krup guns, which the total strength did not exceed 2.000 of all ranks. Besides this force, in 1912, Russia obtained the formal consent of the Persian government to the formation of a similar Cossack Brigade at Tabriz under Russian officers. The consent of the government was given as a condition for the withdrawal of Russian troops in Persian Azerbaijan which, at the onset of the Great War, Russia did not. The Russians also moved one detachment of Armenian volunteer units under the command of Andranik Ozanian to this region.
        Persian Campaign - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
        ===========================================================
        I checked one Terror List so far. Variants of your surname appear, but place names are wrong, Russia and Belarus mostly.
        ============================================================
        Krukov in Ukraine

        1941-01-24
        1940-04-15
        0 1979-11-11 22
        1958-02-28 4
        1973-09-09 - 91/5
        1977-03-09
        1996-02-03
        1939-09-14 - 46/67
        1986-10-16 73
        65389 1953-09-06 8/31
        1976-09-25 86
        1981-01-02 ' 20/36
        662264 1986-08-19 31/13
        1947-03-06 73
        1977-06-01
        1964-09-12
        1974-12-02 4/54
        1935-05-01 37
        1976-03-25 86
        1966-02-21 7
        742826 1945-10-05 25/4
        1923-02-17 112/36
        311218 1965-02-01 11/58
        1969-02-14 25/4
        1989-07-04 22
        1985-09-29 22
        1930-02-10
        1995-11-02 33
        1988-12-28 50- 66
        1942-05-30
        1935-03-01
        1979-09-08 - 20/32
        1938-07-15
        1938-02-05
        31146 1951-08-09 3
        332188 1929-10-23 34/30
        1969-07-08 - 277/5
        1971-06-16
        27465 1945-08-24 - 3- 11/14
        1957-09-04 - 7
        1967-08-02 31/8
        1975-03-13 20/15
        1942-06-16 17
        1963-08-13
        1950-08-14 3
        1952-09-01 169
        1964-03-26 21
        1957-08-17 22
        1964-02-09 37
        1962-04-02 26
        1962-01-06 50 66
        1939-03-15 32/3
        1946-06-15 20/15
        1933-02-11
        92158 1970-02-24 2/5
        =======================================
        Last stop on tram before the forest???

        Tomorrow I will take a closer look at villages in following area of Pushcha-Vodytysia - NW Kyiv
        https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Pushcha-Vodytsia
        Last edited by Hannia; 11th March 2015, 04:48.

        æ, !

        Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

        Comment


        • #5
          Thank you so much. I will try again with my dad to get more information. Hes now 85 and memorys not so good. I remember years ago he thought his dads name was leonid but now hes not sure. He thinks the village was called shevchenko or maybe windyhill, but again hes not sure.He remembers the tram stop from comming home from school in Podol and said it was the last stop before Puschavodytsia. He knows his dad was a soldier as he scared him in his uniform and remembers a big round table in the hallway at home covered in military coats when soldiers came. Jacov krukov was in charge of land growing water melons. There bungalows were near a large pond about a mile apart. Jacov told my Dad he would tell him what had happened to his parents when he was older but with the war this never happened. Thank you once again for your help.

          Comment


          • #6
            They were Russian orthodox, sorry forgot to add that. With the surname my dads not sure of the spelling.

            Comment


            • #7
              Helen, I am still looking for a map of Kyiv tram route #12, however following is the most interesting read so far: Pushcha Tarasa Schevchenka might very well be the place???

              How is life Kiev tram ?
              =================
              =================
              current Kyiv Tram Map
              UrbanRail.Net > Kyiv Tram Map
              ===================================
              ===================================

              PODIL - turn of 19th century

              Kyiv Epiphany Brotherhood School

              Kyiv Epiphany Brotherhood School (Kyivska bratska shkola). One of the most important Orthodox brotherhood schools in Ukraine. It was founded in 1615–16 by the Kyiv Epiphany Brotherhood, shortly after the brotherhood itself was organized. Modeled on the Lviv Dormition Brotherhood School, its purpose was to diminish the enrollment of Orthodox children in Catholic schools. The school was open to boys from all estates. Its liberal arts program emphasized Church Slavonic and Greek. Its instructors came from Western Ukraine; they were graduates of the Ostrih Academy, the Lviv Dormition Brotherhood School, and various Polish and German institutions of higher learning. The school's rectors were prominent Orthodox churchmen and scholars: Yov Boretsky (1615–18), Meletii Smotrytsky (1618–20), Kasiian Sakovych (1620–4), and T. Yevlevych (1628–32). Among its graduates were a number of prominent scholars and cultural figures of the 17th century. The school greatly benefited from Hetman Petro Konashevych-Sahaidachny's protection and the financial support of the Kyiv Epiphany Brotherhood. Patriarch Theophanes III of Jerusalem, who visited Kyiv in 1620, granted stauropegion to the Kyiv Epiphany Brotherhood and praised its educational work. In 1632 the school was merged with the school of the Kyivan Cave Monastery, which had been founded shortly before then by Archimandrite Petro Mohyla, to form the Kyivan Mohyla College (later the Kyivan Mohyla Academy).

              BIBLIOGRAPHY
              Kharlampovich, K. Zapadnorusskiia pravoslavnyia shkoly XVI i nachala XVII veka (Kazan 1898)
              Isaievych, Ia. Bratstva ta ïkh rol’ v rozvytku ukraïns’koï kul’tury XVI–XVII st. (Kyiv 1966)

              Nataliia Pylypiuk

              [This article originally appeared in the Encyclopedia of Ukraine, vol. 2 (1989).]

              Kyiv Epiphany Brotherhood School


              Last edited by Hannia; 11th March 2015, 14:51.

              æ, !

              Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

              Comment


              • #8
                This is so exciting, my Dad says he used to go to the river after school sometimes and fishermen would give him small fish to eat.(trulka?) Will look at your links when I get home this evening. Again thankyou so much. Helenx

                Comment


                • #9
                  Pronounced , which transliterates to tyulka = sprat in English
                  ================================================
                  I am trying to produce as many pictures as possible for him. The Old Kozak still carries the old images in his heart and when he sees these, it might help him recreate his story for you. Make sure to record him.

                  Does he know where he was born?

                  Make an inquiry at Bad Arolsen Archives. Most records generated by post WW2 DP's (Displaced People)are located there. Archives opened a few yrs ago and today is still digitizing the materials. Germans kept very accurate records for anyone who stepped foot on their turf. Even when he worked for the German bauer, he had to report to the police department every month. There is a lot of personal data contained in those records. All you will need to provide is his full name and any variants and his birthdate. The less info you provide, the harder they will look. There is no cost to direct family and make it clear you are doing this on his behalf. In order to expedite matters, have him sign a letter giving you permission to make the inquiry. Have it notarized as well.
                  https://www.its-arolsen.org/en/homepage/index.html

                  How is it that he was not repatriated back to SSR Ukraine as per Keelhaul Operation? Ask him.
                  Operation Keelhaul - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
                  Last edited by Hannia; 11th March 2015, 16:53.

                  æ, !

                  Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

                  Comment


                  • #10
                    Hi Hannia, my dads not really interested in his years in germany, bad memories. He was first picked up and put on a normal train with 4 other boys from school, he got off and made his way back to kiev. When he got there Jacov and rosa were gone. He was wandering the streets when he was picked up again and this time to buchenwald from there to a farm where he was very badly treated. He thinks he was only about 11 when all this started. He was liberated by the americans at the end of the war, starving. They looked after him and he travelled with them all over the place as an interpreter, he spoke polish, german, russian and english (he learnt at school) .They eventually ended up in berlin. When it was time for the unit to leave they gave him a choice of america or britain and the captain he was with had talked a lot about the beautiful places hed been to in britain so he came here. He knew he had no family to return to in Ukraine. Any pictures would be wonderful, hes so excited by all this talk of home.

                    Comment


                    • #11
                      Of course it's understandable that Father does not want to revisit his stay in Germany as a concentration camp Ostarbeiter (Forced Laborer), but we can't work effectively w/o actual dates and places. Everything becomes a guess. Try getting a copy of his records, w/o reawakening any of his nightmares. The Nazis invaded Kyiv in 7 July – 26 September 1941, the heat of battle occurring in August 1941.

                      Operation Barbarossa

                      The initial German invasion of the Soviet Union was known as Operation Barbarossa. It began on June 22, 1941, after months of delay and years of planning. The general goals were to gain more land for Germany, control the oil fields of Azerbaijan, and exterminate Bolshevism—the radical Communism that Vladimir Lenin had installed in Russia during the Russian Revolution. Moreover, Hitler wanted to exterminate the “racially inferior” Russian people from Leningrad, Moscow, and the rest of the western USSR while pushing the rest of the population eastward beyond the Ural Mountains.

                      Despite the fact that the USSR was far larger than Germany both geographically and militarily, Hitler believed that the country would collapse quickly, after a brief show of German force. The German advance was organized into three main thrusts: one through the Baltic region, toward Leningrad; one through central Russia, toward Moscow; and one to the south, toward Kiev and the Black Sea coast. This resulted in a front line nearly 1,000 miles long, which necessitated a gargantuan Axis force of approximately 4 million soldiers, 3 million of whom were German. Although Hitler hoped to complete the operation by the onset of winter in late 1941, Germany’s conflict with the Soviet Union would continue for most of the war.

                      Kiev fell to the Nazis September 19, 1941. That puts Father in Buchenwald (Poland)*** in approximately 1941/42??? That hard labor concentration camp was not liberated by the Americans until April 1945.

                      The scope of the devastation that occurred in the Soviet Union during World War II is poorly appreciated in the West and indeed hard even to fathom. Germany carried out the invasion with a brutality rarely seen in human history. Twenty million people died in Russia at the hands of the invaders—a total that includes soldiers fighting on the front, Jews who were singled out and murdered in Soviet towns, local government officials, and millions of ordinary Soviet citizens who were killed with the same calculating methodology. One of Hitler’s specific goals for the invasion was to substantially reduce the overall population of the western Soviet Union to make more room for the Germans whom he intended to move there. The scale of the killing was so great that even some members of the German death squads became overwhelmed by the grotesqueness of their orders.

                      ***Buchenwald - male orphans from Eastern Europe
                      The Buchenwald children – a forgotten history - SWI swissinfo.ch

                      Buchenwald was liberated by Americans in April 1945 and the Brits arrived two months later. Father was appx 16 yrs old.
                      How any of these kids survived is mindboggling.
                      ==========================================================================
                      Helen, above is for your eyes only, not his.

                      æ, !

                      Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

                      Comment


                      • #12
                        Hi Hannia, I have the day at home today so have spent the morning looking at all your links and information. I have found a picture of Kontraktova square and a film on youtube of the tram 12 route to pushha vodytsia that I will show him tomorrow. I have also found a couple of old maps, maybe he can pinpoint an area. As for his time in Germany I dont think he was in the camp for long luckily although he has talked in the past of an inch of black bread and potato peeling soup when they could get the peelings. He was liberated from the farm. His and my main interest is in his parents and where he lived. You said a few posts back about variations of the surname, could I look into these? What I would dearly like to find for him is actual information about them, I know this is probably not possible. He does not know if Jacov and Rosa were actually relations, they had no children and may have just taken him in. Are there records anywhere in English of where his parents may have been sent that you know of? Many thanks Helen

                        Comment


                        • #13
                          Helen.

                          Without EXACT BIRTH DATE and EXACT PLACE OF BIRTH, the task is indeed next to impossible. In the time frame you are researching there were appx one million people living in Kyiv. Not only did Stalin have a concerted scorched earth policy, but he also executed and displaced millions of people. Without metrical details, you are going around in circles, and my experience dictates that I do not go there with you. No offense is meant.

                          Given that Father was left w/people in the last tram-stop-village before the forest, chances are he was born in what was the Podil/Obolon district. Today those villages/streets are in Baryshivskij raion. In the last 70+ yrs the area has been industrialized. You might be able to obtain his 1928-1930 (???) birth certificate thru RAHS (district level archives). Generally RAHS do not perform research for you. All they are permitted to do is provide a copy of document, but you have to provide the exact date and place. In order to make the inquiry, you will need to contact your nearest Ukrainian Consulate or Embassy and request a PRIVACY RELEASE. I am not sure what the fees in the UK might be. I would venture a guess and say maybe 100GBP. His birth certificate should provide you w/Grandparental origins. The payment is not refundable, if they do not find any records.

                          Copy address exactly as follows:


                          ̦ æ
                          , 28-
                          .ɧ 03022
                          - UKRAINE (UA)

                          no public email available.
                          =================
                          ================
                          Photos from Old Podil
                          . |

                          Last edited by Hannia; 12th March 2015, 17:35.

                          æ, !

                          Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

                          Comment


                          • #14
                            Many thanks for your help so far, I will keep looking. Im sure he ll love the pictures we have already. Will also keeping looking at the persian cossack brigade, he found that fascinating. Ideas we are very greatfull for, thanks again helen

                            Comment


                            • #15
                              Street names in Podil and the various name changes:
                              иевский календарь
                              ===================================

                              Likely the tram that father took: Tram KM and KP produced in 1927-1934

                              Google Translate
                              ========================================


                              .
                              , (Фотоекскурсії иєвом, Україною та світом) .
                              Серія "Подолом" (Фото иєва ::: Фото иева ::: Photo of Kiev ::: Pictures of Kyiv)
                              ================================

                              contemporary Podil video
                              https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NHIUsmhb6UE
                              ================================

                              The funicular to the rear of St Michael's Gold-Domed Monastery and Andriyivsky uzviz both lead down to the riverside mercantile quarter of Podil. An appealing grid of streets lined with quaint lanterns and eclectic turn-of-the-20th-century buildings, it's the antidote to all those Soviet façades that dominate vul Khreshchatyk. Dating back to the earliest settlements, the area grew quickly around the port. Today it's a buzzing restaurant district.

                              Podil was last rebuilt in 1811 after a devastating fire and emerged largely unscathed from WWII.
                              Last edited by Hannia; 13th March 2015, 18:35.

                              æ, !

                              Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

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