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  • #46
    Komrade Sadler.....

    nickcsadler nickcsadler is offline
    Moderator Join Date: Apr 2003


    I fear that western Ukraine forgets the sacrifice made by millions of Soviet people to defeat the nazi regime... without that sacrifice I think we would all now be speaking German and the language of Ukraine qwould also be German and there would be no debate!!!!


    ************************************************************

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    • #47
      Hello Bob. How are you? You're still the card, per usual.

      Your Old Deedo, brimming w/pride, is dancing a Cossachok, at this very moment. I know he is. Some version of the adage of the hot butter likely originates w/him and his father. It's a pagan nature lesson, brilliantly articulated. My husband intends stealing the line and making it his own. I intend to treat it as good advice or at least I will try. I have to admit that I am at that age where I have a hard time doing stupid or spookie.

      I pray for our surviving families and all our friends in Ukraine. It's been 20+ yrs since independence. There is a generation of Ukrainian young people, who are fearless. I know it's all a socio-economic process, but they are so, so ready to move forward. My eyes well up when I see place names like Kharkiv and Nadvirnya penned on Ukrainian Flags, flying side by side. I like the looks of the 44 yr old and 35 yr old politicians, queuing up to take charge. I admire the Klitchko Brothers. I think the Ukrainian Presidency is due some honesty, smarts and world experience.
      ============================
      ============================
      MUST SEE AND HEAR EXPERIENCE:
      3D Euromaidan
      -----------------------------------------------
      Please Support Ukraine's Freedom of Choice
      https://petitions.whitehouse.gov/pet...mbers/h58Fz30V
      Last edited by Hannia; 25 December 2013, 07:40.

      æ, !

      Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

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      • #48
        Hi Hannia, as you noted Bob has this topic close to heart. Me, I'm staying out of it, I have enough trouble grasping Polish history!

        Cheers!

        Peter

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        • #49
          Merry Christmas Piotr.

          Polish officials has been fighting tooth and nail w/EU on behalf of Ukrainians. Until internal matters are squared away within Ukraine itself, nothing happening remains the status.

          Got your Tropical Christmas email. Thank you. We had a little respite from the brutal temperatures, but winter is back. Please pass on my regards to Brother, Wife and Little One, who is probably a big girl by now.

          Wishing you and yours everything you might wish for yourself in the New Year !

          Stay well Old Friend!

          æ, !

          Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

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          • #50
            NEW YORK, December 20, 2013 /PRNewswire/ --

            A leading American think-tank has concluded President Yanukovych's $15 billion deal with Russia will boost the Ukrainian economy while the Association Agreement with the EU would have left it "mired in a new recession".

            The Atlantic Council's verdict on the Ukraine's two short-term options - Europe or Russia - is definitive. Senior Fellow Adrian Karatnycky says the E.U. deal would have left Kiev paying $3-4 billion a year more for Russian gas with trade shrinking up to 1.7% per year as Russia, its biggest trading partner, imposed "legitimate" trade restrictions.

            On top of this concludes Karatnycky, Ukraine would have been flooded with European goods while GDP falls more than three percent.

            Instead he says, Yanukovych has managed to secure real assistance from Moscow without having to commit Ukraine's future to Russia.

            "There are no secret, ironclad commitments such as entry by Ukraine into Russia's Customs Union," writes Karatnycky on the Atlantic Council website.

            "In my view this deal buys time for Mr Yanukovych without closing the door to a future E.U. deal."

            While Karatnycky declared the Russian deal a win for President Yanukovych, he was especially critical of the way the E.U. and the United States have handled the issue of Ukraine's future.

            "The inability of Europe and the U.S. to grasp the geopolitical importance of Ukraine and to understand how crucial it is to Russia's ambitions to re-emerge as a world power, contributed to the diplomatic debacle," he writes.

            "Instead of pursuing a policy to woo Ukraine away from Russia and then seek to reform it over the long haul, Europe and the U.S. chose moralising and hectoring without results."

            At the end of November Yanukovych walked away from the Association Agreement citing the damage it would wreak on the Ukrainian economy. It came with less than one billion euros in financial assistance while failing Eurozone nations including Greece and Spain have so far received 350 billion euros from Europe and the IMF.

            Karatnycky says President Yanukovych's political fortunes are improving, pointing to last weekend's by-election results in which pro-Government candidates were returned in four out of five contests.

            SOURCE Ukraine Monitor
            John 3/16

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            • #51
              I kid you not when I tell you, that the source for previous post is a think tank that promotes itself as a facilitator of access to Russian and Ukrainian markets, and operates out of an apartment on East 8th Street (Lower East Side) in NYC.

              æ, !

              Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

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              • #52
                what evidence do you have to substantiate your claim?. You try to discredit their credentials yet do no comment on the details contained within the post. This is actually The Atlantic Councils contact details: The Atlantic Council is headquartered at:

                1030 15th Street, NW, 12th Floor
                Washington, DC 20005 USA
                Tel: (202) 778-4952
                Fax: (202) 463-7241

                Hardly a NYC apartment is it?.

                This is the website: News
                John 3/16

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                • #53
                  Karatnycky is merely a consultant. He is a fellow w/a grant from the Atlantic Council. AND YES, he operates as an LLC out of an apt on St. Mark's Place - East 8th Street.

                  I repeat that the source for previous post is a think tank that promotes itself as a facilitator of access to Russian and Ukrainian markets, and operates out of an apartment on East 8th Street (Lower East Side) in NYC.

                  æ, !

                  Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

                  Comment


                  • #54
                    I repeat "what evidence do you have to substantiate your claim" and I also repeat you try to discredit their credentials yet do not comment on the actual content of the material, also you make no comment on The Atlantic Council who gave their verdict on the deal with Russia. Please do not just stick to your blinkered viewpoint, read what the Atlantic Council have said and comment on that.
                    John 3/16

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                    • #55
                      Karatnycky, Adrian
                      John 3/16

                      Comment


                      • #56
                        Karatnycky's Myrmidon Group (lobbyist org w/poor address) was given a grant by Atlantic Council (another lobbyist group w/a DC address, which gets money from all kinds of people w/real deep pockets, who are interested in exerting a certain kind of influence. Karatnycky, a Political Science Professor at Rudgers***, a so-so school for this area of study, who also markets himself as an Marketing and PR Facilitator to Russia and Ukraine, was paid for this specific opinion.

                        There is nothing to debate here. I simply do not trust his opinion. It is not a purely academic one as the article leads one to believe. AND we all know that opinions are like bass holes, everyone has one.

                        I am not disparaging anyone. Info above is based on his bios.
                        _____________________________________________________________

                        ***I not sure that he was tenured, because he only seems to show an undergrad degree in English from Columbia University. He also lists himself as Editor for Columbia Review while attending school there. I know there is the famous Columbia Law Review, which does not show him as an editor during yrs he was at Columbia. He does have good writing skills, so maybe there was another magazine called Columbia Review.
                        ---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

                        I had no idea what blinkered meant in British English. I looked it up. Is that limited like in retarded? NRN please.

                        I really do wish you stay out of my posts. Post something of your own.

                        Last edited by Hannia; 26 December 2013, 21:39.

                        æ, !

                        Hannia - Hania - Mighthelp

                        Comment


                        • #57
                          surely the purpose of posting something is to get a response and in that you have been very successful, just because I disagree with what you say doesn`t mean I have to stop posting as you are well aware from our history when you were quite aggressive in your posts, this is a forum and NOT a closed board! You state "I am not disparaging anyone" yet the way you put Karatnycky's is intimating it is a somewhat seedy and shabby apartment in NYC which as such disqualifies him from making any intelligent study or comment, I believe I have shown that that is in fact not so, indeed he is well qualified and experienced as indeed are The Atlantic Council. May I ask what contacts you have actually still in Ukraine?
                          John 3/16

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                          • #58
                            by the way blinkered does NOT mean retarded or anything like that, it means only seeing your viewpoint and not listening or taking into account any view that doesn`t agree with yours.
                            John 3/16

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                            • #59
                              Re:....Mr..Karatnycky

                              I have read his 'opinion's and researched his bio.

                              To be short , secinct and to the point.

                              Anyone who believes a word he writes suffers from Khadaffianitis.....which is delusions of grandeur...."My people love me...!"

                              Anyone who thinks yanuk signed a good deal; suffers from terminal Khadaffianits... !!!

                              'Nuff said.......!

                              Comment


                              • #60
                                so by definition YOU believe a closer association with the EU would have been good for Ukraine? despite the poverty that so many EU citizens live under despite the fact that the EU IMPOSE laws on member states(and they are states and not independent Countries)I have lived under EU rule in the UK since its` inception and I can honestly say that I was wrong as I believed it was going to be a good thing. trust me it is possibly the worst thing that has EVER happened to Great Britain and the sooner the EU collapses the better, Brussels is just a money sucking machine that has no care for the people just for big business.. the EU does NOT care about the welfare of Ukraine or its` citizens or indeed about Romania or Bulgaria they are just a source of cheap labour for big business in Europe so that indigenous workers will have to accept poorer wages and conditions or face unemployment with ever decreasing benefits, don`t be deceived by the EU it is NOT an all being panacea!!!!!
                                John 3/16

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