God on the Brain

[StormAU]

fed, with regards to your comment I am naturally sceptical about everything. For me to say yes there is something of worth in that I have to be able to see that it actually has a worthwhile impact not only on a few but on many. When a scientist says something that has religious connotations I wonder what he is using to back up his assertions, science or his own religious beliefs. Science is the Greek mind whereas Christianity is the Hebrew mind, the two minds do not mix, so if a scientist is using his Greek mind to make a Hebrew statement there is nothing in it and likewise when a Christian is using their Hebrew mind to make a Greek statement there is nothing in it.

Originally Posted by V-G

They will never admit what is exceptionally obvious to many... they can't, they are afraid. Michael is petrified, he has been asking me to give him an alternative explanation, like a child who needs a candy. Can you imagine telling a child that Santa doesn't exist right before Christmas tree is put up? Devastation is likely, not just probable - same here. Sad reality.

and this is where I have stopped reading your material Volodya, you don't "know" me yet you say I am petrified. That is just arrogance to the extreme. When you start applying your own expectations to yourself in a discussion you may find more people will talk to you about religion. You attack people and their beliefs yet freely admit you don't have a clue, that is the problem and why I have asked you to share what you believe in but alas it seems you are incapable of it.

Unless there is a drastic change I have finished with discussing religion with you as I wont be personally singled out as I was above by someone who wont analyse his own feelings when asked yet demands that others do.

[fedorowich]

If you are so skeptical about everything, I'd would like to know what christianity has shown you to overcome your natural skepticism. When a priest or christian person says something about creationism or something science related, I wonder what he is using to back up his assertions, science or his own religious beliefs.

[V-G]

Michael, I hope you will remember this moment as the moment when you quit.

[StormAU]

Originally Posted by V-G

Michael, I hope you will remember this moment as the moment when you quit.

Volodya if not wanting to deal with people like you when people like you are in a mood and say things that they have no idea about with regards to others then so be it I do quit.

When you get over your own issues and are able to discuss your beliefs when asked, regardless of how you feel they are related to the discussion (after all your an atheist and the discussion is also about atheism, so your beliefs regardless of what they are, are relevant), maybe then you have the right to make comment about how petrified a person might be. I think until then you need to consider your own lack of willingness to discuss yourself and how you are relevant to the discussion.

[V-G]

Michael, you can wiggle with words as much as your heard desires it won't change the truth. You have been dodging most of my posts for quite a while, I can only assume it is because you have nothing to say - you can't have anything to say, I am right in every one of those posts and it bugs you. You quit not because of me in particular but because of the subject. You lied when you said that discussing religion was just like discussing egg prices. What does that make you?

When you are done trying to twist words into making it sound like I am the one who can't discuss an issue, go back to "religion vs atheism" thread and see my last post there (yet another one you so conveniently dodged/ignored).

If you are to blame me for something, make it right - I am forward, I am hard to take, I often lack tactfulness and political correctness, but don't blame me for something I am not. I am yet to refuse to answer a question from you on the subject. And oh the irony of you saying "people like you" when claiming that I have no right to generalize you with my thoughts (being afraid like a kid comment). Yes, you are an internet character, just like a character in a book. I only know you as much as I know your posts - my opinion of you is that of "people like you" Get the irony?

Glad we talked. Now you can go on and get in line hating me as most proper Christians will Truth hurts, I know.

[StormAU]

Originally Posted by fedorowich

If you are so skeptical about everything, I'd would like to know what christianity has shown you to overcome your natural skepticism. When a priest or christian person says something about creationism or something science related, I wonder what he is using to back up his assertions, science or his own religious beliefs.

Fed did you read your question before you typed it? Creationism is a religious belief not a scientific one, so it stands to reason what they will be using to back up their assertions. Think about it a little and maybe you will be able to answer your own question.

My scepticism is natural to me. My entire life has revolved around living and dying, literally. I grew up in a funeral parlour and the fridge was in the level below my bedroom. I then was the son of a minister of religion. I didn't and still don't take my father's word for most things. I have seen faith healers, no my old man wasn't into that at all, who are like carrion birds on the thermals waiting for the sick and elderly just so they can say something unintelligible push the person on the head to make them fall over and then claim that person has been delivered from the clutches of death. I have then seen the same "saved" people be dead within a month, so much for faith healing.

Then we have miracle cures in science, things such as glucosamine, which are sid to "find" the ailing joint surround it with shark cartilage (its actually prawn shells nowadays I think) to take away the pain. Later tests have been done on this, scientific tests that are repeatable (that's how science works you know) and people were given 2 types of "glucosamine", 1. sugar pill (in other words a placibo) and 2. real glucosamine, the results were astonishing. the sugar pills had the same effect as the glucosamine, why? well because te glucosamine didn't do anything and it was all in peoples minds.

Now regarding religion, everyday people "see" the virgin mary and I really want to ask them what does she look like considering she has been dead for nearly 2000 years. So I tend to take what is supposed to be a spiritual thing and think to myself well ..... nah .... not real. These people have faith and I admire that, yes I will point out to them that based on their own religious beliefs what they are saying is incorrect but at least they have something to come back at me with because they believe in something.

With my beliefs it isn't religion that convinces me of anything. Religion is simply a way of life, some peoples way of life is to rip into people who say they are Christian, others like to speculate on the stock market while others are naturists (not naturalists). All of these people have something to discuss as to why their "religion" is the way to go. I myself am not interested in having money (apart from the fact I need it to be a part of my society it does nothing for me), I myself am not interested in consumerism and I grew out of the need for social gratification (you know looking good infront of everyone) years ago (actually I never was into that as the people I saw that were into that just annoyed me and I didn't want to be near them).

Now if you read a previous thread you will see that I have studied a fair bit. I have studied many of the things that science uses to discount things like creation. Ok so people see that there are flaws in Genesis 1 and have "showed" to their way of thinking that it cannot have happened. That's fine by me, if they are smart enough to prove its not true then they are smart enough to find out what is true, yet the are unable to. Science is arguing within itself of what is actually reality. Their are creation scientist, intelligent design scientist (theistic evolution), evolutionary scientist and many others, but none of them are able to use science to say "this is what happened and this is how it happened" and prove it without a doubt.

So lets discuss what convinces me. My life for one thing, I don't know how many scientists have told me I shouldn't be able to do what I do, I don't know how many people have openly come out and told me and the people close to me that they are able to do this or that for me (they never can do what they claim btw), yet (and this is what annoys atheists cause they reply that I'm either simple, deluded, gullible, or just plain stupid, which I find to be arrogant) I have a faith that goes beyond belief, I don't "believe", I actually know within myself that I am who I am and do what I do cause I have asked to be able to be who I am and do what I can do. I am not "super" religious, that type of thing annoys me and shows me why faith healers can get away with what they do, but I am a Christian and I do talk to God. When I think about things I know what I am thinking and then I know what God wants me to think or to do with what I am thinking. I don't always do what God wants (I am still human after all) but I don't complain about it instead I get on with things. Now how do I know my thinking as against what God is telling me? I know how I think and it isn't the way God does (remember I am human).

What else convinces me? Science for one thing. This man made "set of theories" that cannot be tested in any scientific manner have shown me time after time that science is incapable of explaining the basis of human existence, not only that but the basis of the universe (it does a good job of explaining what we are now and what is happening in the universe now but not how we got here). Science says that we evolved, well actually some science say this remember science cannot agree with itself, and based on the scientific idea of repeatability evolution should be one continuous repetition of events that allow the basic alleles to modify and make a new genetic code. Now if this was actually repeatable then we should be seeing the creatures that science says we evolved from still walking this planet somewhere, problem is we can't and that's because the modification didn't repeat at any of the "steps" from the original organism type that lived in the oceans to the last creature before Homo. Sorry to tell you but Humanity is unique, if it wasn't we should be seeing the missing links somewhere walking or crawling around.

I know every man and his dog will have a response to this, just one thing if you do at least have something that you believe in and be willing to express it cause I am a bit tired of being the only one who is actually discussing this instead of shooting everyone else down.

[StormAU]

Volodya, you have just called me a liar, you said I have conveniently ignored your posts when it actual fact I have read them in other threads and then told you I wasn't responding to them anymore.

I don't hate you and I doubt many do, I think you just want people like me to hate you so you deliberately try to rub them the wrong way and when you get ignored you keep pushing the boundaries and call them liars or say they are petrified or something equally as obnoxious and when thy chip you on that you think you have won. Oh well, think what you want. Its neither here nor there for me what you think.

Bye Volodya have a good life.