Atheism and Christianity debate

[V-G]

For the fourth time, I do not have to give an alternative answer for you to show that you "concept" or "theory" is wrong! What is so difficult to see about that?

To disprove a theory I just need to show a counter example. I've shown you over a dozen. You still believe in it clinging onto the idea that "oh, but you didn't offer me a big bang theory". Wake up Michael! Start thinking again, I can't have a conversation with you if you lack the most basic skill of reasoning and logic. What is with you in the last little while? Sure as hell you weren't like this when we started.







Unless.... you just don't know how to respond to my posts, which make you doubt your own religion. Maybe you only claim that conversation about religion do not bug you. If that is the case then why not be honest?

Either way, all you are doing is confusing me.

[V-G]

Originally Posted by StormAU

you actually believe in then we have a discussion.

I don't want to compare what I believe in against what you believe in, I think we have a lot of beliefs in common but none of them have anything to with religion. I believe in enjoying this world, to love someone, to do good and be good, amongst many other things. The reason why we can't talk about this is because you will claim that you do it for God and I'll say that you are delusional!

And don't you dare ever say that religion doesn't hurt people. Apart from the most common way of collecting 10% of your pay cheque or whatever the fee you'll pay your church, which is fraud in my eyes, you get morons blowing themselves up in hopes of entering heaven. So pardon my hard up attitude, will you?

[StormAU]

Originally Posted by V-G

For the fourth time, I do not have to give an alternative answer for you to show that you "concept" or "theory" is wrong! What is so difficult to see about that?

we are cranky aren't we, settle Volodya ok or this will go nowhere.

If you dont have to give me an alternative to show my beliefs are wrong then you at least have to show me how they are wrong. Not with stories or bits and pieces taken out of context, which is what you do, but with solid evidence.

Originally Posted by V-G

To disprove a theory I just need to show a counter example. I've shown you over a dozen. You still believe in it clinging onto the idea that "oh, but you didn't offer me a big bang theory". Wake up Michael! Start thinking again, I can't have a conversation with you if you lack the most basic skill of reasoning and logic. What is with you in the last little while? Sure as hell you weren't like this when we started.

You aren't showing a counter example, not anything of worth, and I have asked you to. but what do I get? Santa Claus and some guy with a book called Mormon. Wow good counter examples, not.

I have told you what my issue is, I shouldn't have to explain it again and again but for one last time, you are belittling the beliefs of many people yet you cannot give anyone what you believe in. You are taking materials way out of context, and I know your an intelligent guy who knows what context is, and using that flawed context to prove something that is incorrect.

Originally Posted by V-G

Unless.... you just don't know how to respond to my posts, which make you doubt your own religion. Maybe you only claim that conversation about religion do not bug you. If that is the case then why not be honest?

Are you now claiming I am not honest? The discussion about religion is not a problem, the problem is the person I am discussing it with has nothing to offer in return expect for stories and make believe. Give me scientific fact to back up your assertions that God does not exist if you feel so strongly about it. I know you can't as we have already discussed this yet you keep on keeping on your path of saying this is crap that's something or other and people that believe in it are delusional (or now dishonest?). I'll throw your first line back at you in this quite above, "unless.... you just don't know how to respond to my posts, which make you doubt your own" lack of something to come back at me with.

Originally Posted by V-G

Either way, all you are doing is confusing me.

I didn't confuse you Volodya.

Originally Posted by V-G

I don't want to compare what I believe in against what you believe in, I think we have a lot of beliefs in common but none of them have anything to with religion. I believe in enjoying this world, to love someone, to do good and be good, amongst many other things. The reason why we can't talk about this is because you will claim that you do it for God and I'll say that you are delusional!

No you dont want to compare my beliefs against yours cause your uncomfortable with people asking you to explain yours thus this latest sets of posts. I was willing to just leave it but you come back and have now taken it further. Btw I don't claim I do anything for God, God doesn't need me, I do what I do for my fellow man, there is a huge difference you know.

Originally Posted by V-G

And don't you dare ever say that religion doesn't hurt people. Apart from the most common way of collecting 10% of your pay cheque or whatever the fee you'll pay your church, which is fraud in my eyes, you get morons blowing themselves up in hopes of entering heaven. So pardon my hard up attitude, will you?

People hurt people, religion is merely a concept and a concept does not have the ability to hurt people. People taking that concept to far, the Crusades with Christianity Gihad (holy wars) with Islam are what hurts people, just like Communism and Capitalism (new world religions they are sometimes called) hurt people.

I see you are very angry now, I can understand why, I asked you to bare your deepest thoughts about what you believe and have done that twice now still without a response of any note apart from how unfair it is for me to ask you to do such a thing when you are ripping into my beliefs. It must be hard when you have nothing to come back at me with Maybe you should just leave it cause you aren't going to change what I am doing.

[V-G]

It seems the debate isn't quite over... you surprise me with a forward post like that, a pleasant surprise.

A few issues need to be separated first:

1. If you feel that I did not prove anything to you, then you haven't read most of my posts! You did say you were ignoring me, I didn't realize that you didn't even bother with a quick scan. Please go back, quote me if you have to, and show me how my understanding of the Bible was "out of context". For the record, the Santa story, the Mormon story and the Christian story are all the same to me - fiction. The fact that you agree that Santa and Mormon stories are fiction tells me that maybe if you open up your mind you will realize that Christian story is the same, not a single bit different.
2. I don't mind talking about my beliefs, contrary to what you claim. I thought I made it clear, problem is in relevance - my beliefs are that of my own, influenced by society, friends, family, education etc. This is a thread on Religion VS Atheism. My beliefs are not derived from being an atheist, it is only my disbelief that is (and don't go into "disbelief is a belief in itself thing" we are talking about God's existence of lack of it, yes or no - belief or disbelief, lets keep it simple like that), the rest can be attributed to all other influences of life. On that note, what exactly would you like to know about my beliefs? To be clear, I am very comfortable talking about my beliefs, murder is wrong is one example
3. I agree with you on the issue that it is people that hurt people (not religion) to the same extend as I agree with the claim that guns don't kill people . It is absolutely true that guns don't kill people, but people kill people, at the same time - take away the guns and fewer people will die (automatic weapon is just so much more effective than an old fashioned knife ).

[dobko]

If the solar system was brought about by an accidental collision, then the appearance of organic life on this planet was also an accident, and the whole evolution of Man was an accident too. If so, then all our present thoughts are mere accidents - the accidental by-product of the movement of atoms. And this holds for the thoughts of the materialists and astronomers as well as for anyone else's. But if their thoughts - i.e., Materialism and Astronomy - are mere accidental by-products, why should we believe them to be true? I see no reason for believing that one accident should be able to give me a correct account of all the other accidents. It's like expecting the accidental shape taken by the splash when you upset a milk-jug should give you a correct account of how the jug was made and why it was upset.

C.S. Lewis

I believe in Christianity as I believe that the Sun has risen, not only because I see it, but because by it I see everything else.