Atheism and Christianity debate

[fedorowich]

Well if that was all said already I apologize. I did not read everything on the last 16 pages. Regardless, now it is said again.

That event was tragic and it is a shame. I do not know much about the incident, but with that said, mistakes are bound to happen. As I said before, scientists are not perfect. They are human like everyone else.

[StormAU]

Originally Posted by V-G

I'll be brief:

1. Glad to hear religion discussion is just like cost of eggs for you. I feel free to be blunt and honest

I thought it was for you to, you make up stories after all while you are discussing it.

Originally Posted by V-G

2. You missed a class in school where they taught logic, to disprove a theory it takes one example, doesn't it? What have showed you with my stories so far (look back if you have to):

There you are doing it again, you are saying I missed something. Volodya with all your education and grants to study in other countries it is you who have missed something, you have missed the fact that people do not think like you, you have missed the fact that you bailed out of the other thread first, you missed the fact that after saying you didn't want a repeat of the last thread when you started this one that is exactly what you have done. Your logic has gone around in circles and for all the logic you have to show something is not true you have a canny knack to be able to show you cannot show it isn't,

Originally Posted by V-G

[list=1][*]Bible was written by a man, not God and not even inspired by God

We have already discussed this and you just dont believe it so I am not going around in circles with you

Originally Posted by V-G

[*]Jesus was a phony, he never was a God and never will be

Then why do you keep referring to him? why don't you just let go and let people believe what they want? Religion isn't hurting you so why be so agro about it?

Originally Posted by V-G

[*]Prayer doesn't work

It does and I have seen it first hand, butyou'll just say I'm out of it.

Originally Posted by V-G

[*]God's plan is a contradiction in itself to your whole Religion

Only to people who take the Bible out of context or use it for their own purposes.

Originally Posted by V-G

[*]... can't even be bothered to think back, but even this is enough to call BS on your Religion

and thats just it you cant be bothered so why should anyone else, you wont discuss it or any options, you just want people to say yes Volodya your correct, and if you could have given me an opposing view you may have succeeded in getting a discussion but you cant so you wont.

Originally Posted by V-G

You once again told me that you ignored my stories but should you have? Or are you just running away from them with a lame excuse that I don't offer you the explanation of how the world was created? Weak my friend, very weak After proving conclusively that you were wrong all you did was tell me "well I don't have a better theory so I'll stick this one anyways". Like I said, weak.

So done is done. If you choose to respond and show me how I could have "misinterpreted" verses from the Bible - get back to me. For now, have fun ignoring, I am disappointed but I'll live.

Bye.

Ok, I am the weak one, I am happy to be weak for the meak shall inherit the earth. At least as a weak one I have something to live for that makes sense to me, I can explain many things with my knowledge of both the Bible and Science, I can discuss many things if there is a discussion to have with someone who can give a discussion to.

[bm-21Lemko]

Originally Posted by fedorowich

Well if that was all said already I apologize. I did not read everything on the last 16 pages. Regardless, now it is said again.

That event was tragic and it is a shame. I do not know much about the incident, but with that said, mistakes are bound to happen. As I said before, scientists are not perfect. They are human like everyone else.

No need to apologize, I was just trying to point that out.
You did a good job compacting it.

That is true, and you did say that. My point is even if they do numerous research and there is little room for error, even the small will outweigh the big. I too believe in micro-evolution but not macro though anyways thanks for your argument.

[V-G]

I never bailed from the other thread - stop with the accusations Michael, I've ended it by claiming the following:

Hardly a "bail", if you want to know bail, look at your own actions

The way I feel about religion is different from the way you do, this will always be the case. You said you discussed it for so long that these discussions do not bug you more than the raising cost of eggs, well they bug me (being younger may explain it). I feel cheated by every last one of you religious people, cheated every single day I converse with you and especially today after reading your post. Why? I wish you knew and I didn't have to explain but the chances are slim... so I am forced to quote you:

Then why do you keep referring to him? why don't you just let go and let people believe what they want? Religion isn't hurting you so why be so agro about it?

How do you expect me to answer this question, be honest with you and not tell a story? You have openly condemned all my stories and yet you ask for an explanation. I feel cheated out of options, you block me from expressing myself. When I press a bit harder you bail! I am mad at you Michael, hope you can feel it. What do you suggest I do about it?

Feel free to ignore the rest of my post because I will once again tell you a story a story that explains why I feel compelled to help you:

Imagine that I have an adult friend. Once you get to know her, you realize something. She believes in Leprechauns. She believes in them with all her heart.

* She believes that she can talk to the Leprechauns by speaking silently to them in her head, or by speaking to them outloud with her hands folded.
* She believes that by talking to the Leprechauns, they will grant her wishes.
* She also believes that the Leprechauns will help her heal diseases.
* If she loses something, she calls to the Leprechauns who live in her house to help her find it.
* She says she has a personal relationship with the Leprechauns, and they guide her in many parts of her life.
* She wears a shamrock necklace.
* Every Sunday she has a special ceremony to thank the Leprechauns for everything that they do in her life.
* She believes that the Leprechauns created the universe. She says, "No one can deny that the Leprechauns created the universe, and no one can prove that they did not."
* When she gets married, she wants a Leprechaun priest to do the ceremony.
* When she dies, she believes that he will join the Leprechauns in a magical castle in the sky and live forever.

Now, what do you think of my friend? Her beliefs are harmless, are they not? By speaking out loud to the Leprechauns living invisibly in her house, she feels less lonely and happier.

And yet... there is something creepy about it, isn't there? Yes there is. It is creepy because you know that my friend is completely and totally delusional. She has lost her ability to distinguish the imaginary from the real.

Would you want my friend holding a position of responsibility in our society? For example, would you want my friend to be in a position where she can launch nuclear weapons at foreign countries? Probably not.

Would it be appropriate to talk to my friend and try to help her? Would it be appropriate to heal this delusion?

So there it goes... if you are still reading this then let me ask you a few things:

1. Do you ever take headache pills? Why not just pray instead if prayer works?
2. How often does a prayer work? Do you always get what you ask for?
   Please go back (link below as quote) to read my "stories" on prayer to learn that they actually do NOT work.
   

   Originally Posted by V-G

   Prayer
   .

I knew you would comment on "I can't be bothered" and assume that I don't care. You misunderstood, I can't be bothered to dig up more arguments when I feel that I have shown an overwhelming amount already!

As to your

the meak shall inherit the earth

Don't kid yourself Michael.

Last but definitely not least, let me repeat myself just so we are on the same page here:
-

I don't have to provide you with an explanation of how we all came to be or why or anything else of that sort. I don't! You are silly if you think that the only way to show you that Christianity is a superstition that leads to delusion is to provide an alternative explanation.

[V-G]

fedorowich,

Thank you for your post. Lemko is right, it does sum things up quite nicely, I've posted extensively in this thread and it would take quite a bit of time to read through most of it. I appreciate you voicing your opinion, it was getting "lonely" here for an atheist .

In spite of the heated debate, I have a lot of respect for people posting in this thread so far. We believe in different things but you can't deny that both sides seem to have a very strong opinion. This fact alone makes it for an interesting read, if you are ever bored and have a computer in front of you .

Cheers,
Volodya

P.S. Between us non-believers
Random Bible verse

"For every one that curseth his father or his mother shall be surely put to death."

- Leviticus 20:9 (KJV)

[V-G]

Someone posted this on another forum, I like it:

If God knows everything, he knows what we will do before we do it, and we can do nothing to deviate from that, then we don't have free will, because we can't do anything but what he already knows we will do. So we don't have free will.

But then how does He decide whether or not we go to Heaven or Hell? If we can't choose what we do, surely whether or not we sin is moot, since we can't do anything but what he knows we're going to do?

Also, from here, we can assume that since we have a set path, and everything we do is already decided, that those decisions, that path we must take was created by, well, the creator, God. God is therefore responsible for every bit of human suffering ever commited, since he decided it would happen, thus making him evil, and making any humans in hell undeserving, mere marrionettes in God's depraved puppet show. This gets around the whole "well moral evil is down to free will" since that's an illusion, and He is pulling the strings all along. Either God is evil or not omniscient (or omnipotent - if He doesn't know something, He has no power over it, meaning that He isn't all-powerful either). Either way, he's either evil, powerless/knowledgeless or not real at all. He's not all-powerful but evil, since the "big rock" thing overrules omnipotence, so either He's a cripple by theistic standards, or He's a completely fictional character. Either way, He's not worth my worship.

[StormAU]

and now we get to the crux of the matter, you are angry that people like me are willing to discuss something up to a point and when we ask you to discuss your beliefs you feel cheated. Please don't tell me you believe in Santa Claus and the book of Mormon cause you don't and that is the problem. You don't know what you believe in but you are so willing to belittle the beliefs of others.

btw this is where you bailed:

Originally Posted by V-G

OK, I accept your challenge. But you may be disappointed to learn that I don't believe in the Big Bang either! YAY, the end of the debate is near . Not quite, I can accept and live with the fact that I don't understand how we came to be or even why we still are. Maybe in a 1000 years or 10,000 years someone will find those answers but it doesn't mean I'll believe some obscure scripture you call God's Book.

From that point on you did nothing more but crack jokes and post pictures. Kinda like telling stories really isn't it, nothing definitive from you yet you expect others to give you a definitive on something that cannot be thought about in such a way.

Oh well I will say this, when you have something to compare my beliefs to that you actually believe in then we have a discussion.