Atheism and Christianity debate

[StormAU]

Originally Posted by bm-21Lemko

See you can tell the difference.

What I see is a young fella who picks out a few small lines from the Bible and expects everyone to understand what its about. Sorry Lemko but it doesn't work like that, Jesus never just "pulled" lines from the Bible and expected everyone to understand him, he explained it sometimes with parables other times with point blank statements. You pull a couple of lines and say "See you can tell the difference".

Originally Posted by bm-21Lemko

The first five books of the Old Testament are usually called "the law" or "the Torah" by the Jews. The term "Torah" means "direction, law, instruction." Mostly by Moses

The Torah is all accredited to Moses except for the last few bits before Israel enters Israel. By that time Moses was dead so it was probably Joshua who wrote the last bits. No body is arguing what the word Torah means, I think we all have a clue about it and it isn't all Law either alot of it is history and an explanation of how the Hebrews (Israel) got to Israel.

Originally Posted by bm-21Lemko

The Bible is a parable with significant literal structures. The combination of torah is laws written by man and laws written by god.

Oh my, do you really believe this? A parable is story to explain a difficult concept in a simplified manner. I myself do not see any difficulty in Genesis 1, it is clear as day to me. The Torah itself was penned by Moses as he was inspired to by God, be sure in your mind Lemko that the Bible as we have it is not a book of stories made up by men who occasionally had a chat to God and said "hey is this ok to put in it?" It is called the Word for a reason.

Originally Posted by bm-21Lemko

By King Soloman

Everything has an appointed season, and there is a time for every matter under the heaven.
A time to give birth and a time to die; a time to plant and a time to uproot that which is planted.
A time to kill and a time to heal; a time to break and a time to build.
A time to weep and a time to laugh; a time of wailing and a time of dancing.
A time to cast stones and a time to gather stones; a time to embrace and a time to refrain from embracing.
A time to seek and a time to lose; a time to keep and a time to cast away.
A time to rend and a time to sew; a time to be silent and a time to speak.
A time to love and a time to hate; a time for war and a time for peace.

Good quote, what is the purpose of you putting it here?

Originally Posted by bm-21Lemko

I will say this, nothing is ever black and white when it is left open to interpret

With this I sort of agree but I must make this statement. Adding bits or taking away bits or ignoring bits of the Bible is not interpretation. Statements such as Jews and Christians got it wrong and Mohamed received more Revelations to correct them, when the Bible clearly states that Jesus is the way to eternal life, basically amounts to the fact that people are ignoring the basic concepts of Christianity. Interpret the Bible as you see fit but don't ignore what it is saying. You either believe the entire Bible or you don't it is that simple.

Volodya, I just saw that huge post above my last one, sorry but I'm interested in reality your little stories aren't going to get a comment from me anymore with regards to this topic. All we have done this time around is go over old stuff which you didn't want to do, your not going to change your mind and I'm not going to change mine. I believe in something you don't believe in something infact you cant tell me what you believe in as you have no answers. I will talk religion all day but not only to go over and over the same things again and again.

[bm-21Lemko]

Originally Posted by StormAU

What I see is a young fella who picks out a few small lines from the Bible and expects everyone to understand what its about. Sorry Lemko but it doesn't work like that, Jesus never just "pulled" lines from the Bible and expected everyone to understand him, he explained it sometimes with parables other times with point blank statements. You pull a couple of lines and say "See you can tell the difference".



Oh my, do you really believe this? A parable is story to explain a difficult concept in a simplified manner. I myself do not see any difficulty in Genesis 1, it is clear as day to me. The Torah itself was penned by Moses as he was inspired to by God, be sure in your mind Lemko that the Bible as we have it is not a book of stories made up by men who occasionally had a chat to God and said "hey is this ok to put in it?" It is called the Word for a reason.


Adding bits or taking away bits or ignoring bits of the Bible is not interpretation. Statements such as Jews and Christians got it wrong and Mohamed received more Revelations to correct them, when the Bible clearly states that Jesus is the way to eternal life, basically amounts to the fact that people are ignoring the basic concepts of Christianity. Interpret the Bible as you see fit but don't ignore what it is saying. You either believe the entire Bible or you don't it is that simple.

Always full of nice things to say.

I really don't care, thats probably why i didn't respond to your last post.

[StormAU]

Originally Posted by bm-21Lemko

Always full of nice things to say.

I say it how I see it, if you have a problem with that then that's exactly it, your problem. Who is the one who said "What is your problem man?" and said they were finished with a thread, 2 threads actually?

Originally Posted by bm-21Lemko

I really don't care, thats probably why i didn't respond to your last post.

So what's this then? a non-responsive response? You don't even know why, thus the "probably", you don't respond.

Face it Lemko you are clutching at straws. Mixing 2 different belief systems that have two opposing views is senseless yet it certainly seems that it is exactly what you are doing. You didn't answer my 2nd last post cause you couldn't, you couldn't provide one word from the NT in Koine Greek to back up what you were trying to say. You say you go to church every weekend, and I do not doubt it at all but I wonder what do you actually do while you are there. To get a clearer picture of why you are using the Koran to show that the Bible is full of mistakes I asked you does your Priest preach using the Koran but you don't answer. Do you attend a Mosque as well?

If your going to take offence at people, and swear at them to, when they call you on your "errors" then why even try to discuss something? I'm just pointing out the blindingly obvious to you and others on a topic that is extremely close to my heart.

Everyone else in this discussion is quoting bits from the Bible now I will but I'll be a little different as I will give the scenario it comes from so it isn't taken out of context.

Luke 9:5 If people do not welcome you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave their town, as a testimony against them."

Luke 9 is talking about the Disciples going and working in the towns, teaching, preaching, helping, and healing the people. In Luke 9:5 they are told to leave if they are not welcomed, being welcomed in Judea during the era of Christ was a sign that people would listen, try to understand, show hospitality. Check it out in Luke 9:3 the disciples are told to take nothing with them at all and in 9:4 they are instructed to stay in the first house that welcomes them for the duration of their stay. Such is the commitment of the Hebrew peoples when they have guests that they expect them to stay with the one family the for the entire time. This does not stop them from working throughout the town but it is a mark of respect for the host who is feeding them and making sure they are well rested. Then we get to 9:5 where they are point blank told if you are not welcome (in other words people wont listen to what you have to say, wont talk to you about it) then wipe the dust of your feet (in other words leave and don't try to teach them again).

I tried to get you to stick to one thing to take note of what is said in the Bible,not the Koran but the Bible. You wouldn't listen and wont apparently respond, even though you did when you said you didn't, so I will leave you to whatever belief you have regarding the Bible and hope your Priest can show you.

[bm-21Lemko]

Originally Posted by StormAU

I say it how I see it, if you have a problem with that then that's exactly it, your problem. Who is the one who said "What is your problem man?" and said they were finished with a thread, 2 threads actually?
So what's this then? a non-responsive response? You don't even know why, thus the "probably", you don't respond.

Face it Lemko you are clutching at straws. Mixing 2 different belief systems that have two opposing views is senseless yet it certainly seems that it is exactly what you are doing. You didn't answer my 2nd last post cause you couldn't, you couldn't provide one word from the NT in Koine Greek to back up what you were trying to say. You say you go to church every weekend, and I do not doubt it at all but I wonder what do you actually do while you are there. To get a clearer picture of why you are using the Koran to show that the Bible is full of mistakes I asked you does your Priest preach using the Koran but you don't answer. Do you attend a Mosque as well?

If your going to take offence at people, and swear at them to, when they call you on your "errors" then why even try to discuss something? I'm just pointing out the blindingly obvious to you and others on a topic that is extremely close to my heart.

Everyone else in this discussion is quoting bits from the Bible now I will but I'll be a little different as I will give the scenario it comes from so it isn't taken out of context.

Luke 9:5 If people do not welcome you, shake the dust off your feet when you leave their town, as a testimony against them."

Luke 9 is talking about the Disciples going and working in the towns, teaching, preaching, helping, and healing the people. In Luke 9:5 they are told to leave if they are not welcomed, being welcomed in Judea during the era of Christ was a sign that people would listen, try to understand, show hospitality. Check it out in Luke 9:3 the disciples are told to take nothing with them at all and in 9:4 they are instructed to stay in the first house that welcomes them for the duration of their stay. Such is the commitment of the Hebrew peoples when they have guests that they expect them to stay with the one family the for the entire time. This does not stop them from working throughout the town but it is a mark of respect for the host who is feeding them and making sure they are well rested. Then we get to 9:5 where they are point blank told if you are not welcome (in other words people wont listen to what you have to say, wont talk to you about it) then wipe the dust of your feet (in other words leave and don't try to teach them again).

I tried to get you to stick to one thing to take note of what is said in the Bible,not the Koran but the Bible. You wouldn't listen and wont apparently respond, even though you did when you said you didn't, so I will leave you to whatever belief you have regarding the Bible and hope your Priest can show you.

no Michael, I will tell you why. You make up stuff up that I say, accuse me of it and tell me how wrong I am and that I should repent.

I tried twice reconciling with you. First time you told me to stop preaching and the second time you told me I couldn't handle your conversations. So I thought Hey, maybe if i don't answer in his other post he can just cool his jets, for first time. see the problem is you can't accept any anwser i give you even the byzantine answer was wrong. Because you made up that i said byzantium, why don't you check my posts again.
You can't even back up your own accusasions.

I had posts ready to go to post for the last two, but i didn't want say what i had to say in the heat of the moment so i didn't.
I don't like being mean to people, even if i don't know you.

I know your not catholic or orthodox, your protestant. Protestants look at the bible as if it isn't in the bible it isn't true. I believe in purgatory thats not in the bible.



i gladly anwser your posts. I will try one more time.

Mixing 2 different belief systems that have two opposing views is senseless yet it certainly seems that it is exactly what you are doing.

what did you think i was doing, i'm glad you caught on.

[bm-21Lemko]

Originally Posted by StormAU

What I see is a young fella who picks out a few small lines from the Bible and expects everyone to understand what its about. Sorry Lemko but it doesn't work like that, Jesus never just "pulled" lines from the Bible and expected everyone to understand him, he explained it sometimes with parables other times with point blank statements. You pull a couple of lines and say "See you can tell the difference".

The Torah is all accredited to Moses except for the last few bits before Israel enters Israel. By that time Moses was dead so it was probably Joshua who wrote the last bits. No body is arguing what the word Torah means, I think we all have a clue about it and it isn't all Law either alot of it is history and an explanation of how the Hebrews (Israel) got to Israel.

Oh my, do you really believe this? A parable is story to explain a difficult concept in a simplified manner. I myself do not see any difficulty in Genesis 1, it is clear as day to me. The Torah itself was penned by Moses as he was inspired to by God, be sure in your mind Lemko that the Bible as we have it is not a book of stories made up by men who occasionally had a chat to God and said "hey is this ok to put in it?" It is called the Word for a reason.

Good quote, what is the purpose of you putting it here?

With this I sort of agree but I must make this statement. Adding bits or taking away bits or ignoring bits of the Bible is not interpretation. Statements such as Jews and Christians got it wrong and Mohamed received more Revelations to correct them, when the Bible clearly states that Jesus is the way to eternal life, basically amounts to the fact that people are ignoring the basic concepts of Christianity. Interpret the Bible as you see fit but don't ignore what it is saying. You either believe the entire Bible or you don't it is that simple.

Volodya, I just saw that huge post above my last one, sorry but I'm interested in reality your little stories aren't going to get a comment from me anymore with regards to this topic. All we have done this time around is go over old stuff which you didn't want to do, your not going to change your mind and I'm not going to change mine. I believe in something you don't believe in something infact you cant tell me what you believe in as you have no answers. I will talk religion all day but not only to go over and over the same things again and again.

you're right Jesus didn't do that because the bible wasn't around yet, the torah was.

If you read my posts, you would see i have already meantioned the torah was about history.

Oh my, do you really believe this? A parable is story to explain a difficult concept in a simplified manner. I myself do not see any difficulty in Genesis 1, it is clear as day to me.

Good for you I never called genisis one specifically a parable in any of my posts. i never said gensis one is a parable.

Good quote, what is the purpose of you putting it here?

Well i was answering to Volodya of why there is so much fighting in the torah because there is a time for everything despite how bad it is.

Statements such as Jews and Christians got it wrong and Mohamed received more Revelations to correct them, when the Bible clearly states that Jesus is the way to eternal life

Good but i never was comparing the two in this post, so i don't find the revelance.

For the Byzantine priest, no he does not take quotes from the quran. I like to explore different religions. As i said in my previous post to Volodya, I don't know yet if i believe Islam that is why i said in between. I also asked my priest if i could explore the other religion, so its not like i don't have permission.


Also, Happy Fathers Day Michael and i pray your family gets better.

[V-G]

Volodya,

What is your favorite type of Music?

I like rock and like playing my guitar, I do wish i had a bass though.

I like a lot of British bands
Some german, american, and ukrainian bands as well as russian bands.

MY favorite genres are punk and Alternative.

Sorry, I was busy traveling to the USA for a day, then building a mountain bike trail and finally riding a whole bunch of trails in the last few days... now work is a bit busy, so I'll have to catch up on the reading of this thread later.

About music, I just listen to whatever is on the radio, top 40 hits that kids listen to are just fine by me. I tend to like techno stuff more because it makes me pedal faster (for some strange reason). But really, anything on the radio is just fine, I am not picky.

[V-G]

Originally Posted by StormAU

Volodya, I just saw that huge post above my last one, sorry but I'm interested in reality your little stories aren't going to get a comment from me anymore with regards to this topic. All we have done this time around is go over old stuff which you didn't want to do, your not going to change your mind and I'm not going to change mine. I believe in something you don't believe in something infact you cant tell me what you believe in as you have no answers. I will talk religion all day but not only to go over and over the same things again and again.

I am sorry Michael, that you will no longer respond to my "little" stories. You think we are going over the same stuff over and over again but in reality we have covered a number of new areas that haven't been ever covered. The problem is, like you said, you will not change your mind. Instead of responding to my stories, which provoke critical thinking, you choose to give up. Your only excuse is that I don't have a better "religion" for you. I don't believe in your God because I believe he doesn't exist, I don't have all the answers, but I have enough to show you that your God doesn't exist. Every time I do so, you shy away with a clever wiggle, turning it somehow into "my issue". I don't really care if I change your mind or not, but I do feel sorry that this debate isn't going anywhere. Just like most people I met, as soon as you realized that you can't change my mind you backed off.

I'll gladly follow your lead if you wanted to change the direction of this debate (if we are not to have any of my stories), so the ball is in your court. What should I do to change my mind?