Evolution or Creation?

[stevenal_73]

Hello....The question at hand is Evolution or Creation...what do you believe? I was raised by my parent`s and by the school system I attended to believe in Evolution....and now I question this belief...Yes, I say...Belief. How can things...organized organic life...had evolved by chance through random processes? The second law of Thermodynamics says that all things when adding energy go from a state of order to disorder and don`t living things need energy to continue reproduce new cells and to function on a natural level. If nature itself outside of any God prohibit`s the reorganization of matter into orderly form, how can evolution be true...unless u ommit this law? What are the chances too that males and females would evolve together because each is needed for reproduction? Did nature, as if alive, construct all of these mechanisms. this goes against common experience..That is, in a factory , we make machines and plans to put things together in an orderly fashion through careful planning though past experience and aquired knowledge. Yes, genes are similar from one animal to another but so are small to large cups and tools of different measurements. Did they evolve..?No, they were each made for a certain purpose with a different measurement. I must say that the belief in evolution has certain socialogical ramifications...If I am just0 an animal, how can I rationalize against the murder of other human beings...for aren`t theyu just animals or treating people like I want to treat them...anyway I want to. Ofcoarse this is insanity but to what value is man given if he is just an advanced ape. Ofcoarse, the reasonable man would not even attempt to justify killing using evolution. The last person to do that was Hitler and many other leader,saying..."my group is better than yours because we are superior..." I test the validity of Evolution as a true scietific inquirly because the model of evolution came before experience..That is, the model for macroevolution came from microevolution....the variation of species...not a transformation from one species to another. I have never seen evolution so I have no experience that can justify it. this is not science at all because u need experience to justify the hypothesis. Therefore, I can only conclude that Creation and Evolution are both based on faith but is not any religion....Tell me what you think.

[emmett_y]

grunt grunt....uuraaacc....uggg uggg scratch

[B_Ungaro]

Hello,
This subject has been worn out on this Board.
We agreed to disagree. My point of view is based on science, yet I respect those who
depend on faith. Along with respect, I also am concerned for them. Time and science is
making their faith more and more difficult.
Hungarian Proverb Number 14: The more you know, the less you beleive.
Good Luck.

[andrewblow]

Shucks Bill - you beat me to a comment !!

Steve, as Bill says, this subject -emotive and extremely interesting and always liable to heavy discussion as it is - has been kicked back and forth for some time. However - for the record and to answer your question and also (as it happens) to counteract Bill's views, I would like to say that I basically take your line. Evolution CANNOT work the way we are told it should.....for a vast array of reasons. Creation is difficult to accept unless you have a full and complete belief in an almighty creator God....but once you have FAITH - which some deride as you will understand, EVERYTHING FALLS RIGHTLY, LOGICALLY AND BEAUTIFULLY into place!!!

SO: > I believe in God, creation and the love that God has for His creation - including the fallen state that His highest creation has reached - US.

And don't worry about people like me, Bill - one day we will all see the failure of science (per se) to find God, or explain Him.
But I'll be there, by God's grace and love, with a vast array of believers from all nations - just like God says it will be......

ANDREW.

[Foggy]

Bill, any intelligent man (or woman), be he scientist/humanist/theologian is constantly re-evaluating his picture of reality. When faced with new facts (note that I said FACTS) he adjusts his view accordingly. The problem comes when theories are promoted as facts to suit some agenda... whether the agenda be "flat earth," "geocentric universe," or "darwinian evolution."

In my view, this is the distinction between "faith" and "blind faith."

(By the way, old friend, it is good to interact with you again! Let us enjoy our crossed sabres without cross words, eh?)

[This message has been edited by Foggy (edited 08 June 2000).]

[B_Ungaro]

Greetings Brother Foggy,
It has been raining here like a cow peeing
on a flat rock. As soon as it stops, we are going camping. For now, I will use my time to respond to your most gentle challenge.
I can do this best by giving you an inventory of what I think should be major
consideration when talking about EVOLUTION
or CREATION.
EVOLUTION: Call it a theory if you want. Not all parts of the evolution are backed by science today. Although 90 to 95 percent of the science of EVOLUTION (I call it SCIENCE)
is backed by evidence which can be and have been duplicated and prooven. Every day science becomes more and more detailed and
penetrating as it applies to EVOLUTION. The most important scientific fact about EVOLUTION is that scientist have been
able to duplicate the conditions necessary
for the formation of simple forms of life.
They have even created primitive, single cell form of life in the laboratory.(www.rit.edu/~flwstv/biology.html) This is important because all life on EARTH started
from these kinds of primitive cells. That is where we evolved from to be what we are today. Science and Life are Evolving every day.
CREATION: Creation on the other hand is based
on ZERO EVIDENCE. If your faith is based on
GOD creating everything, you have to beleive
in hearsay and anecdotal stories. Most importantly, you have to beleive the teachings of the book of MOZES which you folks call Genesis.(?) You have to beleive in immaculate conception, virgin birth, resurraction, ascention,(this coming Sunday is Ascention Day) the Holy Spirit, the Devil, Exodus, all things being pre-ordained and all the other stories in the Bible. You have to disregard the fact that not one of these stories has proof or evidence connected to it. Particularly, stories that deal with the existance of GOD and or Jesus being the son of GOD. There might have been a carpenter named Jesus and he might have had a girlfriend called Magdalen. The places in the Bible can be found on the map, but that is where it all ends.
Important teachings of the Bible have been forced into revision by science. The movement is on today to explain away the teachings of Genesis One and Two. When this happens, one will have to ask, what was the need for and what is the function of GOD. I am not militant about this. I know that some people DEPEND heavily on their faith to deal with what life has to offer. I am concerned for them.
Like I said, I am not militant about my views. I do find the Pre-Ordained theory most offensive. Are you telling me that Hiroshima was an act of God, are you telling me that the fire bombing of Dresden was an act of GOD, are you telling me that God chooses who dies and who lives in a car accident, are you telling me that GOD decides who dies from cancer or from old age,
are you telling me that the holocaust was an act of GOD, are you telling me that the genocide of the Palestanian people is an act of GOD? I do not think so. I think that we would be better off without these kind of superstitions. People loving each other and
caring for each other instead of beleiving
in false pretenses would be my choice.
For now, I guess we have to do with the POPE
and the BIBLE. Things are changing though.


[This message has been edited by B.Ungaro (edited 10 June 2000).]

[andrewblow]

Dear friend Bill,

You and Heidi are probably by now in some delightful camp site high up in the mountains, with the barbie spitting and the birds calling and,,, and......

But I can't let your comments hang with absolutely no reply, so here's just a small contribution......

You catalogued a whole list of dreadful tragedies, both personal, national and international. Were they "acts of God?"

NO.

Was God aware of these evil things within His creation and did He allow them?

YES

Did He warn us that these things would happen - and indeed INCREASE in number and severity towards the end of time?

YES.

Does He offer those who believe in Him (through His son Jesus) the strength to accept and even overcome them when they become personal?

YES.

So > I know just a little history ...and God is there and in final control. You already know from my previous postings that I accept and respect your valour - and you know bits of my story. My final testimony will be (quoting St Paul) "My God shall supply ALL YOUR NEEDS according to His riches in Christ Jesus" and that's for now, tomorrow and forever. Loving one's neighbour SHOULD all be part of the deal - shame it sometimes isn't.

Kind regards,
ANDREW.