Yet another example of why there is NO God!

[V-G]

OK, you convinced me, I'll start praying now. *sigh*

[StormAU]

Originally Posted by V-G

Ask yourself this simple question: Why, when you read the Bible, are you not left in awe?

Are you suggesting it doesn't fill me with awe?

Originally Posted by V-G

Why doesn't a book written by an omniscient being leave you with a sense of wonder and amazement?

Are you suggesting it doesn't fill me with these senses?

Originally Posted by V-G

If you are reading a book written by the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving creator of the universe, wouldn't you expect to be stunned by the brilliance, the clarity and the wisdom of the author?

Again are you suggesting .....?

Originally Posted by V-G

Would you not expect each new page to intoxicate you with its incredible prose and its spectacular insight?

No because quite frankly there are parts of Leviticus that are monotonous and repetitive but nonetheless I acknowledge that it is part of Hebrew history and I have read it anyway.

Originally Posted by V-G

Wouldn't you expect the author to tell us things that scientists have not been able to discover yet?

Aha, this is it, you want the Bible to tell you everything about everything. I have already said it doesn't and it doesn't need to. Why do I need to know about the inner most workings of atomic particles? I don't.

Originally Posted by V-G

Yet, when we open the Bible and actually read it, we find it is nothing like that at all. Instead of leaving us in awe, it leaves us dumbfounded by all of the nonsense and backwardness that it contains.

No it leaves you in this state and its is simply because you are not open to what is in it. Like I said some are receptive to its message many aren't.

Originally Posted by V-G

If you would look at the Bible fresh, and read what it actually says, you find that the Bible is ridiculous. The examples shown above barely scratch the surface of the Bible's numerous problems. If we are honest with ourselves, it is obvious that an "all-knowing" God had absolutely nothing to do with this book.

If we re honest with ourselves we would discuss it in the light of our feelings but understand others don't feel the same way. I have done this with you and am yet to call into question your honesty.

Originally Posted by V-G

The Bible is a book written thousands of years ago by primitive men. A book that advocates senseless murder, slavery and the oppression of women has no place in our society today. It is time for us to recognize this simple fact.

The Bible is a book written thousands of years ago by Bronze and Iron Age men. The OT is a record of the history of the Hebrew peoples, the NT is the fulfilment of that history and in no place of the NT does it condone senseless murder and oppression of women, instead it calls for respect of all peoples. Now slavery is a different matter, I do acknowledge that slavery is within the OT and also mentioned in the NT but the call in the NT is nevertheless to treat all with respect.

[StormAU]

Originally Posted by V-G

OK, you convinced me, I'll start praying now. *sigh*

I appreciate your sarcasm. Many wouldn't but I do.

[StormAU]

Originally Posted by V-G

One more post from the online book:
Understanding the Bible

Volodya, the entire post that this is an excerpt of is going back to fantasy or hypotheticals and is highly emotive.

1. You want a reasonable discussion but you keep doing hypotheticals, the me and you discussion wouldn't happen.

2. You have taken many points from the OT way out of context and put an emotive light on them when what is written is to explain the history of the Hebrew peoples. They were not perfect yet your emotive use of terms like "the most intelligent being in the universe" is trying to paint a picture that the entire Bible is a book of brutal things. Its not and all you need to do is look at the NT to see that all the requirements of the OT are no longer required.

3. You claim that the Genesis account is wrong, well lets put the shoe on the other foot here, you prove it, you convince me that science has it covered correctly. You show me where something come from nothing in a big bang. Show me how you are related to an Ardepithecus or an Australopithecine. Show me where the missing links are that join these creatures to modern man. Lets turn this discussion around and let me see you prove your right without turning it into am emotive discussion. I have discussed this with you freely but you change the discussion, you put in imaginary things and hypotheticals. Like I said I am interested in your POV but now I want to see your proof.

Btw, I am still enjoying it but you need to prove your claims now, and guess what I know you cant.

[V-G]

Well this is hugely unfair, at one time you are telling me that you can't prove anything to me and yet you are asking proof from me. It should be a two way street.

Re: sarcasm, every joke has a bit of truth in it. I've already confessed that I would like to believe in the God, just like you do. But looking (even if from an emotive point of view) at all what made YOU believe, I am not convinced. If anything, I am now convinced that your views have been shaped before you started thinking for yourself (no offence meant).

Originally Posted by StormAU

Are you suggesting it doesn't fill me with awe?

Are you suggesting it doesn't fill me with these senses?

Again are you suggesting .....?

No because quite frankly there are parts of Leviticus that are monotonous and repetitive but nonetheless I acknowledge that it is part of Hebrew history and I have read it anyway.

Aha, this is it, you want the Bible to tell you everything about everything. I have already said it doesn't and it doesn't need to. Why do I need to know about the inner most workings of atomic particles? I don't.

No it leaves you in this state and its is simply because you are not open to what is in it. Like I said some are receptive to its message many aren't.

If we re honest with ourselves we would discuss it in the light of our feelings but understand others don't feel the same way. I have done this with you and am yet to call into question your honesty.

The Bible is a book written thousands of years ago by Bronze and Iron Age men. The OT is a record of the history of the Hebrew peoples, the NT is the fulfilment of that history and in no place of the NT does it condone senseless murder and oppression of women, instead it calls for respect of all peoples. Now slavery is a different matter, I do acknowledge that slavery is within the OT and also mentioned in the NT but the call in the NT is nevertheless to treat all with respect.

The only reason why you claim to be filled with awe while reading the bible is because you have been taught to do so through your religion and if you were a newbie to this and picked up that same book, please believe my word on this, you wouldn't be in any kind of awe.

[StormAU]

Originally Posted by V-G

Well this is hugely unfair, at one time you are telling me that you can't prove anything to me and yet you are asking proof from me. It should be a two way street.

It is a two way street my friend, I am now just changing direction. I said I cant prove anything to you simply because its an individual thing. Even in one of my first few posts I said I wouldn't try to convert you as it isn't up to people to do that. My point about you proving things now is I have moved the discussion away from belief in a higher being (God) to a belief in the universe just happened and is controlling itself. You asked me questions to get me to prove myself now I am asking you to do the same.

So 1. Why is the Big Bang correct?
2. Why and how are we related to these other Genus's?
3. Why if all we need to do is good things didn't at least one person save that poor women in Saudi Arabia from her terrible fate?

Now we are moving off religion for a time, I have no doubt we will come back to it and it is only fair that we do go between the two ideas, I would really like to see your take on "reality" and please leave religion out of it if at all possible.

[V-G]

OK, I accept your challenge. But you may be disappointed to learn that I don't believe in the Big Bang either! YAY, the end of the debate is near . Not quite, I can accept and live with the fact that I don't understand how we came to be or even why we still are. Maybe in a 1000 years or 10,000 years someone will find those answers but it doesn't mean I'll believe some obscure scripture you call God's Book.