Yet another example of why there is NO God!

[StormAU]

My friend, you should write for Hollywood, may Bollywood even. Thank you I haven't laughed so hard in ages.

Originally Posted by V-G

You don't believe my answers because you know that I am making this stuff up. The invalidating evidence is voluminous.

Now lets think about this a little. I asked you to tell me what you believe and I get the Santa Claus story which you freely admit you don't believe and are making up. Hmmmm, lets move away from fantasy and see what you really believe.

Now with regard to the quoted text, Yes you are correct I didn't believe that cause I knew you were making it up, You however know that I am not making up my story, thus you are still here discussing this with me.

[V-G]

I don't think you are making it up, people before you did that already and you are just failing in seeing that the story is made up. Do you see the difference?

What I believe in is that there is no Santa, there is no god and that religions are pointless .

[StormAU]

Here's the clincher for you. You just took all that time to write 4 "imaginary" stories when all you needed to say was "compare the stories in the Bible to those of Islam, Santa and the Book of Mormon" and I would have known exactly what you are talking about.

Here is the thing that most people find so hard to believe. there are so many "stories" about that tell us many wonderful things yet we "know" that they are all ludicrous. If they are all ludicrous then there is no harm in them as people are just living life based on doing good deeds.

The thing is Christianity is different, good deeds will get you nowhere, Santa gives toys to every child, the rich who can afford to get their own get more than the poor who can only afford one (probably from a 2nd hand shop at that). So Santa has simply given the rich more than they need as mummy and daddy could afford to get it for them anyway.

The book of Mormon was written at least 1k years after the previous revelation of God. At no time in history had God been silent for so long only to come back and produce a religion that completely shifts the centre of importance to another continent. Ask yourself this with regard to the Book of Mormon, if it is true that Hebrew peoples inhabited America why don't native American's have any stories about them? The difference between Mormon and Christianity is at least 2 other religions can verify its existence. Judaism might not agree with Christianity but it does acknowledge its historical basis and its the same with Islam. Islam and Christianity both acknowledge their historical basis. Mormon has no historical basis that can be attested to by not only other religions but also by the people who were in America at the same time of the so called lost tribe of Israel. This is BattleStar Gallatica stuff, good movie but far from reality with nothing from other sources to show it could have happened. Christianity has the support, not the agreement but the support, of other religions.

[V-G]

Why do you still believe that Christian story, I will never know... sigh...

Please take the time and read that online book . Maybe you'll see where I am coming from.

[V-G]

One more post from the online book:
Understanding the Bible


In this article, I would like to help you see the Bible from a fresh perspective. Let's try to look at the Bible as though you have never seen it before.

Imagine that we are good friends. One day we are talking:

Me: Wow, you will not believe this new book I've been reading!

You: What's it about?

Me: It is a manual for living a better life. It is also a guide to creating a better society for ourselves and our children. It has changed my life!

You: That sounds like an important book. Who wrote it?

Me: The author is supposed to be the smartest person in the universe.

You: That's amazing -- if the author is the smartest person in the universe, the book must be absolutely brilliant. I can't wait to see it. Do you have a copy with you?

Me: Absolutely! I carry it with me everywhere I go! Here, have a look for yourself...

You open the book to a random page, and you find this:

Any of the people of Israel, or of the aliens who reside in Israel, who give any of their offspring to Molech shall be put to death; the people of the land shall stone them to death. I myself will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people, because they have given of their offspring to Molech, defiling my sanctuary and profaning my holy name. And if the people of the land should ever close their eyes to them, when they give of their offspring to Molech, and do not put them to death, I myself will set my face against them and against their family, and will cut them off from among their people, them and all who follow them in prostituting themselves to Molech.

If any turn to mediums and wizards, prostituting themselves to them, I will set my face against them, and will cut them off from the people. Consecrate yourselves therefore, and be holy; for I am the Lord your God. Keep my statutes, and observe them; I am the Lord; I sanctify you. All who curse father or mother shall be put to death; having cursed father or mother, their blood is upon them.

If a man commits adultery with the wife of his neighbour, both the adulterer and the adulteress shall be put to death. The man who lies with his father’s wife has uncovered his father’s nakedness; both of them shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with his daughter-in-law, both of them shall be put to death; they have committed perversion; their blood is upon them. If a man lies with a male as with a woman, both of them have committed an abomination; they shall be put to death; their blood is upon them. [Leviticus, chapter 20]

You are not quite sure what to say. You look at me for a moment.

You: I thought you said that this is written by the most intelligent person in the universe. If we are going to follow what this author says, we have to kill half the people in America. We are supposed to kill everyone who has cursed his father or mother, everyone who has committed adultery, and every homosexual.

Me: Well, that's in the old testament, you see. The book is really two books, and the "old" part of the book doesn't really apply.

You: Are you saying that the smartest person in the universe once wanted us to kill every adulterer and homosexual, but then changed his mind? That somehow makes it better? If the "old part" no longer applies, then why did you hand it to me when I asked to see the book?

Me: Well, parts of it do apply.

You: Didn't you just tell me that it doesn't apply?

You open the book to another random page and you find this:

When you buy a male Hebrew slave, he shall serve for six years, but in the seventh he shall go out a free person, without debt. If he comes in single, he shall go out single; if he comes in married, then his wife shall go out with him. If his master gives him a wife and she bears him sons or daughters, the wife and her children shall be her master’s and he shall go out alone. But if the slave declares, ‘I love my master, my wife, and my children; I will not go out a free person’, then his master shall bring him before God. He shall be brought to the door or the doorpost; and his master shall pierce his ear with an awl; and he shall serve him for life.

When a man sells his daughter as a slave, she shall not go out as the male slaves do. If she does not please her master, who designated her for himself, then he shall let her be redeemed; he shall have no right to sell her to a foreign people, since he has dealt unfairly with her. If he designates her for his son, he shall deal with her as with a daughter. If he takes another wife to himself, he shall not diminish the food, clothing, or marital rights of the first wife. And if he does not do these three things for her, she shall go out without debt, without payment of money.

Whoever strikes a person mortally shall be put to death. If it was not premeditated, but came about by an act of God, then I will appoint for you a place to which the killer may flee. But if someone wilfully attacks and kills another by treachery, you shall take the killer from my altar for execution.

Whoever strikes father or mother shall be put to death.

Whoever kidnaps a person, whether that person has been sold or is still held in possession, shall be put to death. Whoever curses father or mother shall be put to death.

When individuals quarrel and one strikes the other with a stone or fist so that the injured party, though not dead, is confined to bed, but recovers and walks around outside with the help of a staff, then the assailant shall be free of liability, except to pay for the loss of time, and to arrange for full recovery.

When a slave-owner strikes a male or female slave with a rod and the slave dies immediately, the owner shall be punished. But if the slave survives for a day or two, there is no punishment; for the slave is the owner’s property. [Exodus, chapter 21]

Again, you are dumfounded. Here the author of the book is advocating slavery, the branding of slaves, and the wholesale beating of slaves. You are not quite sure what to say. You look at me for a moment.

You: You have to be kidding me. Here the "smartest person in the universe" is telling us that slavery is OK and that we are free to beat our slaves.

You open the book to another random page and you find this:

I desire, then, that in every place the men should pray, lifting up holy hands without anger or argument; also that the women should dress themselves modestly and decently in suitable clothing, not with their hair braided, or with gold, pearls, or expensive clothes, but with good works, as is proper for women who profess reverence for God. Let a woman learn in silence with full submission. I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man; she is to keep silent. For Adam was formed first, then Eve; and Adam was not deceived, but the woman was deceived and became a transgressor. Yet she will be saved through childbearing, provided they continue in faith and love and holiness, with modesty. [1 Timothy, chapter 2]

You are nearly speechless. But you manage to find your voice.

You: Is this some kind of joke? "I permit no woman to teach or to have authority over a man." That is totally sexist! In America, there are millions of female teachers and we have women throughout our corporate and govenment hierarchies. No intelligent person believes that women should be silenced.

As you page through the book further you find that it is totally sexist from beginning to end.

You keep opening the book to random pages, and nearly everything you find is utter nonsense. Either it is meaningless, completely irrelevant, disgusting or downright wrong.

If you are a scientist it is even worse, and it starts with the very first line:

In the beginning God created the heavens and the earth...

That's not true. In the beginning a natural event created the universe as we know it, and the earth did not form until billions of years later. The creation story in Genesis is completely wrong. Simply read Genesis and you can see it. For example, the Bible says that light and darkness are created after the water but before the sun. Everyone knows that the sun came first, then the planet and its rotation (which is what causes light and darkness to occur on a daily basis) and then the water, and this all happened over million of years. There are many other problems with the Bible:

* Man did not come from a handful of dust through some mythological being. Man evolved from other species like every other living thing has for hundreds of millions of years.
* The Bible talks about a world-wide flood that covered earth in 5.5 miles of water and killed everything, yet we know it never happened. That is clear from the archeolgical record.
* There was no tower of Babble.

[V-G]

The list goes on and on. The Bible is nonsense in a thousand different scientific ways.

Ask yourself this simple question: Why, when you read the Bible, are you not left in awe? Why doesn't a book written by an omniscient being leave you with a sense of wonder and amazement? If you are reading a book written by the all-powerful, all-knowing, all-loving creator of the universe, wouldn't you expect to be stunned by the brilliance, the clarity and the wisdom of the author? Would you not expect each new page to intoxicate you with its incredible prose and its spectacular insight? Wouldn't you expect the author to tell us things that scientists have not been able to discover yet?

Yet, when we open the Bible and actually read it, we find it is nothing like that at all. Instead of leaving us in awe, it leaves us dumbfounded by all of the nonsense and backwardness that it contains. If you would look at the Bible fresh, and read what it actually says, you find that the Bible is ridiculous. The examples shown above barely scratch the surface of the Bible's numerous problems. If we are honest with ourselves, it is obvious that an "all-knowing" God had absolutely nothing to do with this book.

The Bible is a book written thousands of years ago by primitive men. A book that advocates senseless murder, slavery and the oppression of women has no place in our society today. It is time for us to recognize this simple fact.

[StormAU]

Originally Posted by V-G

Why do you still believe that Christian story, I will never know... sigh...

Please take the time and read that online book . Maybe you'll see where I am coming from.

I read it the other day and then posted in post 112 " I have just been doing a little reading and now I understand a lot more of what is happening here."

Your entire argument against religion in general and Christianity more specifically in this thread is highly emotive. I do understand what you are talking about and I would say that your expectation of concrete signs is the real issue. You expect that "if there is a God" he will show himself and finish the confusion. It aint gonna happen cause even when he did show himself people still didn't get it.

There has only been one silent period before the NT times and that was the intertestamental period and people were asking the same types of questions and making the same types of statements. Where is God? If he exists why isn't he doing something? We are now in the second silent period and it is before the end days. I don't know when the end days will be and quite frankly I don't care because I still see God around in the things that we have already discussed. Point is Volodya God doesn't need to show himself again till the end days, why? because even if he did people would still question his reality. It has happened before and it will keep happening until time ends.