Yet another example of why there is NO God!

[StormAU]

Originally Posted by V-G

Why is it that the minute I show that there is major inconsistency with the way god is being described and the world I hear "what do you expect him to do?". I don't expect him to do the same thing Santa does, bring gifts Did you miss the part where I said I didn't believe god existed?

What is the major inconsistency? Really if you don't believe he exists then your whole "YOUR god" thing is also an inconsistency because if he doesn't exist as you believe then he wouldn't be anyone's god and the people you are referring to are infact complete and gullible idiots. The fact you are saying things like "YOUR god" shows that you at least appreciate others do believe he does exist and may not be gullible or idiots and what you may be trying to do is emotionalise something you feel strongly about.

Originally Posted by V-G

Lemko, I am glad we are on the same page that if I was born in a muslim community I am screwed and will never see heaven. It just goes to show that god didn't give everyone a chance to go to heaven and why wouldn't he? could it be that he doesn't exist?

In the Bible it clearly states that "no one goes to the father except through me" the me being Christ. Here's the trick Muslims do not believe that Christ has that power or authority. So it stands to reason if a person rejects the cornerstone of salvation then they haven't got a chance. To go further there are not many people in the world today that have not had any opportunity at all to hear or read about God. So if they reject what is written, or heard if the telling is faithful to the word, then they also have no chance.

Originally Posted by V-G

And please do not separate religion the way you do, believing in god is religion and this is the only religion I am discussing here.

Aren't I allowed to get a clarification? Believing in God does not make you religious, infact you can believe God exists and choose to ignore him therefore being an agnostic (choosing not to know). Being religious is following a way of life based on something. So if your religious about Christianity you would follow the teachings of Christ.

[is5512]

Originally Posted by V-G

OK, we are getting closer and closer here...

Please show me where in my thread I suggested that I tried two times and BECAUSE it didn't work I gave up? I gave up because I realized that I was wrong even trying!

Nope, didn't say you only tried twice. Said you didn't try enough times. "realized that I was wrong even trying" tells me you got discouraged. I can't judge you for that...not when I have such a vivid history of that myself.

"so here is my call to you - show me a verse in the Bible that shows what I should do with the neighbor's light bulb (figuratively speaking of course, since they didn't exist when the book was written). And when (IF) you find it, why don't you prove to me that I couldn't have come up with the same solution by other means (NOT reading the Bible). But I guess that would be too much too ask, wouldn't it?

Aw, come on pal. That's what we call "low hanging fruit." lol. Do you want the verse that defines the term "neighbor," the one that discusses how you should respond if your neighbor won't change Your light-bulb in return, what happens if your neighbor steals 489 lightbulbs from you, what if your neighbor is an elderly widow or orphan, a young widow, what if your neighbor forces you to change one light bulb, or how many have changed light bulbs for angels unawares? I believe the word you're looking for is "uncle."

"A little evil or a little pregnant? I know that religious folks usually have trouble with logic but this was bad even for a religious guy. I have to be honest with you here and slam you on the forehead by telling you that evil is not TRUE/FALSE kind of thing, but pregnancy is!"

Nope, it wasn't sarcasm. Evil is true/false type thing. I could just as easily used a "sewage in the water supply" analogy (how much before you decide the water is undrinkable?), but the "pregnancy" analogy is more in line with an earlier post of mine. You'll recall my statement that we were created solely for relationship with God. So imagine a relationship with a wife: She's unfaithful or she's not. There is no difference between squeezing on some guy and bearing his child. Especially when the Bible says that a sin of the heart is no different from the sin in the flesh. (God is spirit, remember?)

One point you've brought up that I'm not sure has been addressed...or even defined: "Why doesn't God intervene?"

I may catch some heat for this from fellow Christians; so be it: God's will doesn't always get done. Sickness, poverty and death are not his will. Scripture even points out (2Corinthians 4:4) there is a "god of this world," and it ain't Him. If your question becomes, "Why don't Christians intervene," you've got a more legitimate point.

[StormAU]

Hi 5512, great points. I'm just trying to clarify somethings about this topic so I hope you don't mind my using your posts.

Originally Posted by is5512

(God is spirit, remember?)

Now this is it in my mind, how can we even suggest something like this to someone who 1, doesn't believe god exists and 2, is discussing the topic in an emotive fashion to prove god doesn't exist. I don't want anyone to take this the wrong way but people who look for "signs" of gods existence are to caught up in the whole god doesn't do anything I can see or science can verify so he doesn't exist thing are not easy to discuss this with.

Originally Posted by is5512

One point you've brought up that I'm not sure has been addressed...or even defined: "Why doesn't God intervene?"

Maybe not in those words but certain it has been addressed. I myself said that if he intervenes for one he would be expected to intervene for all. I then asked what does V-G want god to do and was sorry to see the reply I received, but I suppose it as a reasonable reply in the sense he doesn't believe god exists so in his mind god cannot do anything.

Originally Posted by is5512

I may catch some heat for this from fellow Christians; so be it: God's will doesn't always get done. Sickness, poverty and death are not his will. Scripture even points out (2Corinthians 4:4) there is a "god of this world," and it ain't Him. If your question becomes, "Why don't Christians intervene," you've got a more legitimate point.

I would hazard that gods will does get done, just not in peoples time frame so they then say he doesn't exist cause he didn't do anything when I knew that if he did he could. It isn't gods will that people feel pain of any sort but it isn't god who caused it either. So I think we need to ask do we want intervention of do we want free will? If we want intervention, and I'm happy fort that to occur, we need to consider that other people are going to be upset about the loss of free will.

I'm not sure the "Why don't Christians intervene?" is a valid question here. Why? well because the OP doesn't clearly define one religious group, instead it just makes comment to religious folk and my contention is that there is more than Christianity that can answer this question.

[is5512]

Hiya Pastor! (sorry, I can't get past the title and "first-name" someone who held that office. Besides, isn't there a verse something to the effect of "treat a prophet like a prophet and recieve a prophet's reward"? besides, those of my "denomination" are called greedy by some; hate to disappoint them, lol).

Seems like we *might* have a few differences in perspective, but nice to see you here.

[StormAU]

Apart from the welcome and the nice to see you here part I am totally lost as to the rest of your post.

Thanks for the lovely hiya though.

[dobko]

Hi ya Storm and and is5512, blessings to you both and welcome. It's wonderful to witness the wisdom you are adding to the boards through peaceful discussions.

Wish brother Andrew was around to add, I love his posts and patience as well.



Volodya........Let no man deceive himself. If any man among you seemeth to be wise in this world, let him become a fool, that he may be wise.

1 Corinthians 3:18

Word up my friend.

[StormAU]

Hi Dobko, thanks again for the welcome, I have to give Kathy a plug as its because of her I am here. Who is Andrew? Sorry for the questions, I have an inquisitive mind

I have just been doing a little reading and now I understand a lot more of what is happening here.

V-G there is nothing that can be said that will do anything to change what you feel. I may be wrong but I think this is because you have seen tragedy and the only thing that will convince you at this time is the exact opposite of what you have seen. Thus the threads about no god that I have been reading.

I don't like doing what I am about to do but I'll fill you in a little bit about me. I have only done this twice before. I'm 39 years old, nearly 40, and can tell you quite truthfully most of what I have known is what some people would call a hard life. I was born with quite a few health issues, and a few others have cropped up over the years.When I was at school I had the crap beaten out of me everyday, and when I wasn't at school I was in hospital. My education went downhill cause I didn't want to learn. In the last 6 years I have had more than a few of my extended family and a few friends die, my father is terminally ill and even the doctors cannot tell him how much longer he has to live cause he has gone past the average time with his illness.

I'm not going to give you every detail but I will say that in all of my life I have never once questioned why it was like it was. In my adult life I have worked hard and I educated myself, I am a motor mechanic by trade and a high school teacher. I am the son of retired minister of religion who for all of his faith and work for the Christian church is dying an extremely painful death yet I do not question why it is happening and neither has he. Instead we look forward to the day we see each other again.

Some people will say I believe and leave it at that, I don't. I say I believe and I know God exists. I believe and I know he has helped me in my life. I believe and I know he is giving my father comfort and has extended his life past what science can do for him. I believe and I know there is a plan.

Now for people to think I am totally out of my mind