Why russians hold tyrannic politicans?

[Serbiano]

Why Russians hold the most tyrannyc politicians in the world?

We in Serbia, are very disapointed in Russia, because thay hold the worst politicians in us country
(Union of Serbia and Montenegro).
Russians hold parties which is against realy demokracy and integration into Europian Union in Serbia, Bulgaria, Ukraine, Moldova, Belorus, Georgia etc.
They hold Milosevic and wars crimes in Balcan wars.
Now in Ukraine, they hold Janukovic. Terible!
They sometimes made citisans conflikt and only mark for them is to stop expansion demokratic values.

[Turbin]

It is very said to hear such words from a Serbian Slav brother...

You are dissapointed in Russia but not in the countries who droped bombs on your country in the name of "democracy" ..??

Meanwhile Yanukovich is supported by millions of Ukrainians who are not as easily manipulated and brainwashed as you and your friends from "Otpor" are :









God, help Serbia against "democrats" like you Serbiano...

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Turbin
It is very said to hear such words from a Serbian Slav brother...

You are dissapointed in Russia but not in the countries who droped bombs on your country in the name of "democracy" ..??

Meanwhile Yanukovich is supported by millions of Ukrainians who are not as easily manipulated and brainwashed as you and your friends from "Otpor" are :

I think you missed the point, Turbin. I am also a "Slav brother" and I like Russians but the fact is that Russian rulers have really been despotic and often massacred their own people. Yes, Yanukovich is supported by the millions but it does not give anyone right to garble the election results. Fraud is fraud. Would you ignore 200 000 people gathering in Kyiv, staying for hours in frost and demanding justice?
BTW, not many people liked bombs being thrown on Serbia but was Milosevic an innocent guy? Please keep in mind that before the Kosovo thing, there were wars in Slovenia, Croatia and Bosnia. Who was primarily responsible for starting the first European war after WWII? Many people have already forgotten unnecesary tragedy of Sarayevo and thousands of raped Croatian women.

[Turbin]

Pan Zbyszek, my defenition of Slavic brotherhood does not aply to our Polish friends...I might be more correct calling Serbiano Orthodox Slav brother.

200 000 (?) people gathering in Kiev are mostly easily manipulated and overly emotional youths who are being used by cynical politicians for their own ambitions.

As president Kuchma (who is far from being my hero) said : Revolutions are dreamed up by romatics, carried out by fanatics and their results are used by villains.

Yes Bolshevik despots massacred millions of their own people, but what relevance it has to the present sitution in the Ukraine ?

Also do you believe that no Serbian women were raped and killed by Croat nationalists, Muslim islamists and KLA-albanian terrorists in former Yugoslavia??

Pan Zbyszek NATO bombs were not droped on Melosevic but mainly on Serb bridges, factories, churches, hospitals etc.

Coming back to the question of fraud in Ukrainian elections, this question should be settled in courts not on the streets ...
There were numerous violations made by Yushenko supporters in the Western Ukraine as well.

Here is a report by British Helsinki Human Rights Group :

http://www.oscewatch.org/CountryRepo...2&ReportID=230

The British Helsinki Human Rights Group (BHHRG) sent observers to the second round of the presidential election in Ukraine on 21st November 2004. BHHRG monitored the election in the city and district of Kiev, Chernigov, and Transcarpathia. Counts were observed in central Kiev and Uzhgorod.

Contrary to the condemnations issued by the team of professional politicians and diplomats deployed by the OSCE mainly from NATO and EU states, the BHHRG observers did not see evidence of government-organized fraud nor of suppression of opposition media. Improbably high votes for Prime Minister, Viktor Yanukovich, have been reported from south-eastern Ukraine but less attention has been given to the 90% pro-Yushchenko results declared in western Ukraine.



Although Western media widely claimed that in Ukraine the opposition was, in effect, excluded from the broadcast media, particularly in western Ukraine the opposite was the case. On the eve of the poll √ in flagrant violation of the law banning propaganda for candidates √ a series of so-called ⌠social information■ advertisements showing well-known pop stars like Eurovision winner Ruslana wearing the orange symbols of Mr Yushchenko▓s candidacy and urging people to vote appeared on state television!



Although BHHRG did not encounter blatant violations in either the first or second rounds, the Group▓s observers were alarmed by a palpable change in the atmosphere inside the polling stations in central Ukraine in particular. In Round 1, a relaxed and orderly mood prevailed throughout the day. In Round 2 the situation had become slightly tense and chaotic. In BHHRG▓s observation the change in Round 2 was attributable primarily to an overabundance of local observers, who exercised undue influence over the process and in some instances were an intimidating factor. The vast majority of observers in the polling stations visited were representatives of Viktor Yushchenko.



Transparent ballot boxes meant that these observers could frequently see how people had voted. This OSCE-approved innovation made intimidation of voters for the more unpopular candidate in any district easier since few supporters of the minority would wish it to be seen how they had voted.



Ukraine▓s election law allows only candidates and political parties, not non-governmental organizations, to deploy observers. However, observers can be deployed in the guise of journalists. For example, the Western-sponsored Committee of Voters of Ukraine (KVU) √ clearly sympathetic to the opposition √ deployed observers throughout Ukraine as ⌠correspondents■ for the organization▓s newspaper, Tochka Zora. On 31st October, BHHRG did not encounter any representatives of this newspaper anywhere, but on 21st November such journalist-observers were highly visible in central Ukraine. In Chernigov 11/208, for example, all 6 journalist-observers represented opposition newspapers and one, for Tochka Zora, stood very close to the ballot boxes and closely inspected how votes were cast. Because ballot papers in Round 2 were much smaller than in Round 1 and were not placed in envelopes before insertion into the transparent ballot boxes, secrecy of the ballot was compromised. In this case, the immediate impression was that a young Tochka Zora correspondent exercised more control over the process than the election commission chairman himself.



In Chernigov (7/208), all 7 journalist-observers represented opposition newspapers, in some cases simply temporary campaign publications such as the pro-Yushchenko propaganda paper Tak √ his election slogan ⌠Yes.■ In a scene exemplary of the mood of voting on 21st November, BHHRG watched a nervous looking old woman emerge from a voting booth, approach the three opposition observers sitting directly behind the ballot boxes, and ask: ⌠Have I filled out the ballot correctly?■ An observer inspected the ballot, saw it was filled in for Viktor Yushchenko, and replied: ⌠Yes.■ The woman▓s unfolded ballot was plainly visible in the transparent ballot box.



Such groups of opposition journalist/observers were not in evidence in the Transcarpathian region visited by BHHRG▓s observers. Exit pollsters in Mukachevo admitted to being Yushchenko supporters and were carrying out their poll in a simplistic manner √ asking every twentieth voter for their choice without categorizing by age, class, etc. 40% of voters refused to say how they had voted, but 80% of the remainder said that they had backed Yushchenko. The exit polls were clearly not scientific √ less so even than the ones predicting Kerry trouncing George W. Bush in Florida and Ohio!



In a polling station attached to Uzhgorod▓s university a group of young, male Yushenko observers hung around the entrance to the polling room and next to the ballot box. OSCE guidelines condemn the presence of such un-authorised personnel. The commission chairman in this polling station stated that four members of the election commission had prevented observers for Mr. Yushenko from fulfilling their tasks leading to the intervention of lawyers. When this accusation was put to other members of the commission they appeared dumb-founded and said no such incident had taken place. The chairman appeared shocked that the BHHRG observers sought to confirm his detailed account of the misbehaviour of some of his colleagues by asking other witnesses, but no proper observation should accept allegations unquestioningly.



Conclusion:



Whatever may have been the case in south-eastern Ukraine, it was clear to this Group▓s observers in central Ukraine and western Ukraine that the opposition exercised near complete control. The broadcast media showed bias towards Mr. Yushchenko in these areas, particularly in western Ukraine where Mr Yanukovich was invisible √ not even being shown voting on polling day. It is naОve to think only the government had the facilities to exercise improper influence over the polls. From what BHHRG observed, the opposition exercised disproportionate control over the electoral process in many places, giving rise to concerns that the opposition √ not only the authorities √ may have committed violations and may have even falsified the vote in opposition-controlled areas. So-called ⌠administrative resources■ in places visited by BHHRG appeared to be in the hands of the opposition, not the government, and this may have frightened voters. After all since Sunday, police and security personnel in some western towns have declared their loyalty to ⌠president■ Yushchenko.



The open bias of Western governments and their nominated observers in the OSCE delegation, some of whom have appeared on opposition platforms, makes it unreasonable to rely on its report.



In spite of concerns, BHHRG finds no reason to believe that the final result of the 2004 presidential election in Ukraine was not generally representative of genuine popular will. The election featured a genuine choice of candidates, active pre-election campaigns, and high voter participation. It is clear that Ukrainian opinion was highly polarized. That meant many people backing a losing candidate would find it difficult to accept a defeat. Foreigners should not encourage civil conflict because the candidate on whom they have lavished expensive support turned out to be a loser.

[Serbiano]

J am not dissapointed in West, because West lands liberate me by Milosevic.

J was hate Milosevic.
His regime drived serbs and montenegrians in war.
1991. Serbs bombard Vukovar (Croatia)
1991. Montenegrians bombard Dubrovnik (Croatia)
Serbs army bombard Sarajevo (Bosnia)
Milosevic's regime expeled milion Albaninas from Kosovo.
We, serbs which was under ages in this times were not gilty, but 60 % serbs which voted for Milosevic's socialiss or Seshelj's radikals werw gilty.
They gave legitimite for fashist's politic.

NATO bombard Serbia and Montenegro, but they didn't bombard civils. They shooted only military targets.
In Belgrade region ( 1 500 000 citisens) only 16 people was killed in NATO bombing 1999. Every willige in Kosova has more sacrifices.

Now, president Serbia is Boris Tadic. His party is Demokratic party. OTPOR was joined for this party.
Now Boris Tadic have meetings with presidents of Croatia, Bosnia, Germany, Belgium but when Tadic last week go in Russia, Putin had'nt time for Tadic.
Vladimir Putin degradet my president.
Russians prefered wars criminals (and everybady who was against Europian Union) then demokratic and humanist politicans like Tadic and like people in his party or OTPOR.
Russia lake you only in one case. If you are her's (despot) colony.

SHAME!

[Turbin]

Serbiano, would it still be "only" 16 people if you or your parents would've been among them ?

The fact is NATO bombing killed about 500 innocent civilians in Serbia.

http://www.kosovo.com/natobomb.html

Also you yourself said what 60 % of Serbs supported Melosevic/Seshelj which is according to you was dictator from whom NATO "liberated" you...

Anyway I know that neo-Trotskysts from Otpor have their own idea of "democracy" and don't care about death of their own people.

Tadic is as far as I know fortunatly very unpopular in Serbia, unlike Kostunica.

[Serbiano]

But NATO warnet Radio Television Serbia that them bombard this station.
Director of RT Serbia knew date of bombing the building of TV.
Many people in Serbia knew this date too, but Director Milanovic sacrificed people in TV.
He thought that after this tragedy every people in the world would hate NATO.
Director TV in 1999. now is in arrest.
He try to run away to Russia.

Tadic is very popular politic in Serbia.
Hi is us president and hi get 53 % voices in may.

Many people in Serbia prefered EU then Russian Federation because Europe Unian is humanic, modern.

Russian parties are:

Putins - EDINAJA RUSSIA - pragmatics
KPRF - Staljinists
Liberals (Zirinovski) - fashists
RODINA - fashists

Very poor joices. Very poor.

YABLOKO is only good party.
Meybe SPS.