A KEY QUESTION+ the Pope's visit

[Jarema]

When one is reading this board, the conflicts between east and west Ukraine become obvious. The struggle for independence is also evident, especially in the West. Russia's imperial apetite for Ukraine and its TOTAL lack of respect for Ukrainian identity is clear.

My QUESTION: given all the above facts, and the Polish Pope's visit to Ukrainre in which he stressed the need for Ukrainian identity and self-governance, spoke Ukrainian etc.

Why was there no breakthrough with the people-to-people relationships between West Ukies and Poles ??

Sharing simillar faith, values and history - why wasn't this chance used to break the ice between the two peoples ??

[The_Last_Word]

Originally posted by Jarema
When one is reading this board, the conflicts between east and west Ukraine become obvious. The struggle for independence is also evident, especially in the West. Russia's imperial apetite for Ukraine and its TOTAL lack of respect for Ukrainian identity is clear.

Actually, these conflicts between east and west ukrainians are obvious without necessarily reading this board. Your so-called "struggle for independence" is nothing more than a struggle of a minority in the Ukraine to break away from Russia and take the rest of Ukraine with them into the "embracing" arms of Poland.

I don't know where you see any Russian "imperial appetite," I've never heard any Russian officials pressing Ukraine to join Russia. I don't do that and I am not a Russian official either. How do you come up with a lack of respect for ukie identity? Your hysteria is all made up and baseless.

My QUESTION: given all the above facts, and the Polish Pope's visit to Ukrainre in which he stressed the need for Ukrainian identity and self-governance, spoke Ukrainian etc.

Yeah, right. You need a papal theocracy to take you into paradise. Usually, religious leaders call people to save their soules and believe in God, however, the Polish pope (or his speach writers) decided to "stress" political propaganda aimed against the majority of Ukrainians to please the west ukrainian catholic minority.

The Pope spoke ukrainian? How nice. He's just welcoming you back into Poland and sweetening the deal by sucking up to the locals. I guess you also fail to see Polish-Papal-catholic "imperial appetite" here.

I won't even mention that the Ukraine is traditionally Orthodox Christian, not catholic, and the majority are firmly Orthodox and pro-Moscow today.

Why was there no breakthrough with the people-to-people relationships between West Ukies and Poles ??

Poland was the last Western country to turn its back on the Ukraine, mainly because Ukraine itself failed to live up to any higher standards in its domestic and foreign policies.

Sharing simillar faith, values and history - why wasn't this chance used to break the ice between the two peoples ??

Ha ha, I guess there are no similar values of faith or history between the two, as you imagined.

[ricardo]

Religious diplomacy is no longer on the cards as it's bound to cause severe divisions rather than unity of faith in a secular society.
Besides, Catholisism is just one of the represented religion in Western Ukraine.

[Jarema]

Indeed, perhaps we were russianized more then some expect.

It is a pitty.

Lost opportunities for understanding do not come by so easily.

[ricardo]

Far from it Jarema. IMHO religion should not be a tool for political ends but rather be tool to unite people.
I'm Orthodox and my parents came from Volyn and Zhytomir so what does that make me in your eyes a Russian?

[Jarema]

Originally posted by ricardo
Far from it Jarema. IMHO religion should not be a tool for political ends but rather be tool to unite people.
I'm Orthodox and my parents came from Volyn and Zhytomir so what does that make me in your eyes a Russian?

NO !!!!!!!

In my opinion nationality is determined (contrary to the views of our dear friend the last word)by who you believe you are.

So it is not a question of religion but of all beliefs and definitions. If you feel you are a part of the Unkrainian nation and are happy to accept all the positive AND NEGATIVE sides of this choice - then you are one INDEED. No question about it.

The message I was trying to convey, is that the Pope's visit was filled with wonderful words of peace, understanding and self-determination for Ukraine. It was unique and wonderfull to be encouraged by such a person in such a way (a Polish man from Cracow).

I think, Ricardo, that Ukrainian ties with Poland and its people should be stronger - they were the first nation to acknowladge Ukranie's independence.

[The_Last_Word]

Originally posted by ricardo
Far from it Jarema. IMHO religion should not be a tool for political ends but rather be tool to unite people.
I'm Orthodox and my parents came from Volyn and Zhytomir so what does that make me in your eyes a Russian?

You should see how Jarema defends his Latin values in the other thread, claiming that Ukrainians were always closer to the Latin approach.