russia and ukraine, get back together!

[Adamz0r]

All I can say is I hope titoman's getting paid to spam us with Communist BS.

[Jarema]

It is the first time I have to admitt that you are right !.

Ukraine's independence is not 100% sure. It is a stuggle.

It may develop or die. A lot depends on the sensitivity of Ukraine's neighbors - especially Russia.

If there will be understanding and compassion on the side of Russians - our relationship will develop well. If not then Ukraine will slowly drift away from Russia.

So it is in Russia's business to help Ukraine's new state.

I also see that slowly but constantly West Ukraine is developing a good undarstanging with their Polish neighbors. Soon, people in Lviv and other West Ukraine cities will realize they have more in common with their Polish neighbors then they realized before.

So i think Russia has to try to be nicer to the Ukraine or else...

[The_Last_Word]

By "little people" I was referring to people with little minds and nearsighted views. Don't get me confused with ethnic chauvinists.

Originally posted by Jarema
It is the first time I have to admitt that you are right !.

If we can half a constructive discussion, you may agree with me more.

Ukraine's independence is not 100% sure. It is a stuggle.

It may develop or die. A lot depends on the sensitivity of Ukraine's neighbors - especially Russia.

If there will be understanding and compassion on the side of Russians - our relationship will develop well. If not then Ukraine will slowly drift away from Russia.

"Understanding and compassion" is something that married couples or close friends have for each other. But after separation or divorce, it's very unlikely that such feelings could be expected.
Imagine that the Black and Azov sea coast of Ukraine splits and becomes an independent country, calling itself New Russia and hating the Ukrainians for trying to force them to learn Ukrainian. How would Ukrainians feel about them?

Nevertheless, I see that you admit that Ukraine's well-being depends largely on Russia.

Now, imagine this: What if today there was no Russia (and Belarussia). Their land belongs to other countries or doesn't exist at all. All other countries are still where they were, including Ukraine.
What is Ukraine's purpose now? Those who hated Russia would now have no one to hate. Official policies of ukrainization of Russian-speakers through schools and media would now have no meaning, because there would no longer be a danger of separatism. Russian-speakers would have no other country to join.
Would Ukrainians feel more at home in a world like that? Would they fit in with Europe and Asia around them?
Would they feel safer? What would they contribute to humanity? Would the rest of the world bother to accept a country barely post-communist, corrupt and underdeveloped? Or would Ukraine become the 21st century Sick Man of Europe? Do you think that powerful Western Europe, America and Asia would deal fairly with little Ukraine? Now that Russia doesn't exist, would Ukrainians better relate to their western or asian neighbors? Would they have more in common, or would Ukraine have to conform to foreign views and ideals? If Ukraine would disagree, would it really have the necessary clout and voice to push its ideas and views in the world, or even in its own land? I seriously doubt it.

So it is in Russia's business to help Ukraine's new state.

It's actually in Ukraine's interests to help Russia as well.
Again, if Russia did not exist, do you think America would care to help Ukraine? What for? America and other western powers only help Ukraine to counter Russian influence in the region. But if Islamic Arabs did not exist, America would still continue to support Israel, because that is a true freindship of nations. Who will be Ukraine's friends in a world without Russia? I don't think America would, because Ukraine is a corrupt regime. Would Poland, Germany, Turkey or China become her true friends?

Russia is the only country in the world that could destroy the U.S., or any other country. That is why America takes measures to keep Russia in check in the event of a possible conflict.
Without needed support from its friends Ukraine would be divided between Europe and Islam. Half of its people would freeze to death without cheap Russian oil and gas. The country would be transformed into a Catholic diocese and would surpass Thailand in the sex tourism business at the same time.

My opinion is that if Russia ceased to exist, independent Ukraine would end existence soon afterwards as well.

I also see that slowly but constantly West Ukraine is developing a good undarstanging with their Polish neighbors. Soon, people in Lviv and other West Ukraine cities will realize they have more in common with their Polish neighbors then they realized before.

Do you think west ukrainians would feel more at home being part of Poland? I doubt east ukrainians would even consider such a move. I see it as a natural inclination of the different peoples of the UKraine: west toward Poland, east toward Russia.

So i think Russia has to try to be nicer to the Ukraine or else...

Or else ... what?
Did Russia do anything bad to Ukraine in all the years of its independence? The opposite is more like it, and at Russia's expence.

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[vivandr]

Ukraine is sovereign country and it will decide by itself what future it will have and with whom. Do not think that this independence was given from above or from Russia, Poland or US. The price for it was paid by many generations, and it▓s stupid to say that all this was just invented by historians or politicians. It leaves in the memory of the nation, at folklore, at millions of written and unwritten documents. And ignorance of it by Russians cannot make it less important. Ukraine will become the prosperous country, we have hard burden of the past, but it does not mean that we have no future. I think that last thousand years (actually less as it is hard to talk about Russia at that time) had showed clearly the intentions of Russia concerning Ukraine. And I am sure that now it is high time to make conclusions from it. There will be Ukraine, our Ukraine, please have no doubt about it.
Vitaliy

[Andrej]

Give me a ****in' break, Russian opression ? Did you know about 60 million people in the times of the Soviet Union within. Most of them are Russians. The fact that today on the map Crimea which Russians faught several wars with the Turks belongs to Ukraine is because was it Kruchev.. Out of brotherly love assigned it to the Ukranian SSR on our 300th anniversary unification. (At least we got our navy there And yes Russia does want a strong and stable Ukraine. Not a proud, poor and utterly corrupt Ukraine, filled with whiners and ultra-nationalists. Base statements on Reality, RUssia may have the same problems but, Russian economy still about 3 times smaller than it should be if you equate to the Russian one on a Population comparison basis. Ukraine needs to have a clear position, something Russia has done lately. Formulate your national direction, the only way to prosperity and stability.

[Andrej]

I would contribute but I think "The_Last_Word" has said it all. The radicals are always the most outspoken but are usually in the minority. I have been to Ukraine and all I remeber is twice as many Babushkas along the rail road. Ukraine needs at least 10-20 years to catch up to Russia alone, assuming it grows at very fast rates. Ukraine needs to focus on economy and nothing else, because without money all their nationalistic crap means nothing. They owe so much money to Russia that the Black Sea Fleet pays its rent with the energy debt.

[The_Last_Word]

Originally posted by vivandr
Ukraine is sovereign country and it will decide by itself what future it will have and with whom. Do not think that this independence was given from above or from Russia, Poland or US.

Oh, but it was.
Ukraine's borders were drawn out by the Bolsheviks, and they gave it a Soviet Republic status. Within those borders, even today, a mixed pupulation of Russians and ukrainians live, not to mention many others.
Historically, also more than half of what is today Ukraine was part of Russia, conquered by Russia and settled during Russian rule.

The price for it was paid by many generations, and it▓s stupid to say that all this was just invented by historians or politicians. It leaves in the memory of the nation, at folklore, at millions of written and unwritten documents. And ignorance of it by Russians cannot make it less important. Ukraine will become the prosperous country, we have hard burden of the past, but it does not mean that we have no future. I think that last thousand years (actually less as it is hard to talk about Russia at that time) had showed clearly the intentions of Russia concerning Ukraine.

As Andrej said, Russia spilled a lot of its own blood to liberate the Ukraine from Poland and Austria, notorious for persecuting Ukrainian Russians and Cossacks at that time. Furthermore, Russia welcomed Ukrainian settlers into its territory and settle in Kharkov, Sumy, Black sea coast, etc.

And I am sure that now it is high time to make conclusions from it. There will be Ukraine, our Ukraine, please have no doubt about it.
Vitaliy

"Our" Ukraine? Do you speak for some minority? More than half of all Ukrainians want to be in some sort of union with Russia, and less than 10 percent want not to be in such a union.