russia and ukraine, get back together!

[Lvivske]

Originally Posted by MichaelB_PL

1. I actually don't claim that Lviv does or should belong to Poland now - a city is more than a location and buildings, a city is above all the population, the life and culture created by it. Lviv was a Polish city before 1945, but then it has been effectively destroyed (in cultural, social terms) - it's population have been replaced by outsiders, now there's a Ukrainian city there, with a cultural history of 53 years.
.

It was more of a Ukrainian city before 1945 than you would like to believe. The Polish were the outsiders; the entire region surrounding the city was Ukrainian.

[Max_the_Highlander]

Lvivske, I was defending the Ukrainian belonging of Lviv against very ridiculous arguments... shockingly ridiculous. Now it's better to give this honor to you as it should be. This Pole was brave arguing with folks from Transcarpathia about Lviv, same brave as arguing about Russians with Ukrainians.

Now I want him to repeat all this rot in the eyes of any real Lvivian... on correct forum of course.

So let me get back to original theme of this discussion because fortunately I'm able to spot what is appropriate and what is not.

On Kathy and Stepan discussion about Russia.

Talking about modern Ukraine-Russia relations we have to remember the trade amount between these countries makes tenths of billions dollars. Our countries are mutually integrated economical structures. Russian companies strive on Ukrainian markets and Ukrainian companies strive on Russian markets and this process deepens.

I think the law of economics is search of cooperation and integration in any situation. It's just like the economics works.

And economical cooperation of this kind is highly profitable and desirable.

But when we begin to talk about politics we see some problems.

We see political direction of Russia now is opposite to Ukrainian direction. And we have to look for solutions and exits. Obviously we have to have balance between antagonistic political positions and need of economical cooperation.

Kathy, that’s why when you talk about "union" you have to define - economical union or political union?

If you want to see an example of political union with Russia, look on Byelorussia.

But when we talk about economical union, I feel word "union" is very bulky... it resembles about many duties. Obviously, we need something more flexible.

Btw, mere Russians don't know what petrol dollars is. Oil incomes are distributed by folks from Medvedev-Putin group and few oil tycoons. As Russians joke "We know there are oil money in the country but we don't know where they are".

[Lvivske]

well said highlander

[Kathy]

I believe Stepan was referring to a political union, and my response was made accordingly.

The standard of living in Russia's major cities has certainly improved, and not only for oligarchs. That is what I meant, and that is a direct result of petro dollars. Russia is also a US creditor, and that is not because of the strength or growth of the Russian economy, but because of its petro clout.

Michael, UPA was not a fascist organization, though it was clearly a nationalist organization.

[Max_the_Highlander]

Since the issue about encroachments on Ukraine's integrity is in fact finished, let's go back to our usual political discussion.

Kathy, I understand your position about Russia, I'm sure it has firm background. Russia is very profitable trade partner, we understand their culture and many Russian people do not share mindset of supreme rulers.

For you to know, we still have few unions as CIS, United Economic Space and few others. These are very extended agreements of mostly economical character which made the trade realtions very easy.

However, the Russian power not always looks for friendship in political relations... and Ukrainian power actually too. The issues about Crimea and Black Sea Navy are good examples.

We have to count these dangerous trends.

As about petro dollars I think they warm up the Russain economics globally, and definitely they don't flow in pockets of an every sitizen.

[bm-21Lemko]

since i don't live in Ukraine or Russia, what are the big companies that generally rule the economy?

[Max_the_Highlander]

I think all the Russia stands on oil and gas export... that's why its core enterprises are related ones for example Gazprom, Sybneft, LukOil etc... Among the car factories I could notice VAZ and GAZ. That's all realted to industry which can be described as big.

Mobile telecommunicetions are represented by MTS and Beeline, both have share in Ukraine too.

And of course they have many big banks as VTB, Vhesheconombank etc.

Of course they have many others productions but they are not giants in World scale anyway.