russia and ukraine, get back together!

[Andrej]

Jarema, motherfuc'ker youre mistaken I can speak whoever the fuc'k I want. I ain't here to talk to dumb kids who think free Ukraine is their goal in life, without knowing exactly what theyre talking about. Its as retarted as people coming around talking about free Caucaus/Kafkaz. Like what the fuc'k, I wanna hear something realistic, why spend your energy on these ideological causes that have little meaning. How Chechnya can be rebuilt is a realistic question, where will it get the financing ? Not 'oh why won't these cowardly Russians let us have a free Kafkaz'. Like what the fuc'k does that mean ? Nothing, useless rhetoric. Same is the issue of Ukranian independance. You are free, be THANKFULL and stop whining like little bitc'hes about your savagely neighbours and what not. Its not helping you, its not helping anybody. Thats what I have been trying to get through to you people, but you don't seem to get it. Ukraine is free, with large portions of Russian land, if anything Ukraine is the opressor and were the victims. Victims of your victim syndrome. Tired of constant whining, unclear policies that result in stagnation. Ukraine didn't have to be as poor as it is today, it chose its own destiny. Instead of fronting with Russia about an array of meaningless issues it could have used the time and money to focus on its shattering economy. Why in gods name does Ukraine need an Navy ? It knows it can't afford one and doesn't hide the fact, but look how many years were spent in negotiations over the Black Sea Fleet, that in the end was 90% given back to Russia for no cost. Seriously, this bullshi't must be profitable for someone in Kyiv otherwise Ukraine is suffering from "David vs Goliath" self pitty syndrome.

[The_Last_Word]

Originally posted by Andrej
Jarema, motherfuc'ker youre mistaken I can speak whoever the fuc'k I want. I ain't here to talk to dumb kids who think free Ukraine is their goal in life, without knowing exactly what theyre talking about. Its as retarted as people coming around talking about free Caucaus/Kafkaz. Like what the fuc'k, I wanna hear something realistic, why spend your energy on these ideological causes that have little meaning. How Chechnya can be rebuilt is a realistic question, where will it get the financing ? Not 'oh why won't these cowardly Russians let us have a free Kafkaz'. Like what the fuc'k does that mean ? Nothing, useless rhetoric. Same is the issue of Ukranian independance. You are free, be THANKFULL and stop whining like little bitc'hes about your savagely neighbours and what not. Its not helping you, its not helping anybody. Thats what I have been trying to get through to you people, but you don't seem to get it. Ukraine is free, with large portions of Russian land, if anything Ukraine is the opressor and were the victims. Victims of your victim syndrome. Tired of constant whining, unclear policies that result in stagnation. Ukraine didn't have to be as poor as it is today, it chose its own destiny. Instead of fronting with Russia about an array of meaningless issues it could have used the time and money to focus on its shattering economy. Why in gods name does Ukraine need an Navy ? It knows it can't afford one and doesn't hide the fact, but look how many years were spent in negotiations over the Black Sea Fleet, that in the end was 90% given back to Russia for no cost. Seriously, this bullshi't must be profitable for someone in Kyiv otherwise Ukraine is suffering from "David vs Goliath" self pitty syndrome.

Andrej,
You know they are too weak to do anything themselves, but they are doing that only because someone else supports them from the outside. Mainly American taxpayer money, allocated by the U.S. Congress for its "foreign policy" to support "democratic" institutions in the Ukraine. In reality, this support goes for backing ultra-naitonalists, like Jarema and others. Another destructive factor is the presence of Ukrainian-American congressmen in the U.S. who push their political agenda in Congress to solicit such foreign policy support for Ukraine, at the expence of the American taxpayer and against the interests of Russia and the Russian-speaking majority in the Ukraine.

I think in time this will change. Ukraine continues to be too impotent to change anything, and Russia is gaining momentum and power to put things back into proper perspective.

[zhuk]

Please, Last word and Andrej, note that Jarema is a polish, not ukrainian.
Although both counties contributed to ukraine's culture a lot. Poland - mostly before 1648, but still up to 1939 on the western territories.
then Russia- after the 1648, but up to 1991.
but I ask you to be more delicate, not to use the national symbols of your countries on this forum.
On using of these symbols, it makes makes you the outsiders of the interests of the most Modern ukraine citizens.
If we want to have something in common, let's discuss many things that may unite us, either with poland or with Russia.
But different flags are liding to separating and to the borders between brother nations.

[The_Last_Word]

Originally posted by zhuk
Please, Last word and Andrej, note that Jarema is a polish, not ukrainian.

Thanks for the info, I was beginning to wonder why the hell he was always carrying on the way he did.

Although both counties contributed to ukraine's culture a lot. Poland - mostly before 1648, but still up to 1939 on the western territories.
then Russia- after the 1648, but up to 1991.
but I ask you to be more delicate, not to use the national symbols of your countries on this forum.

I don't think your argument is sustainable. The imperial Russian coat of arms in my sig includes, among others, the crests of Poland, Kiev (Ukraine), Finland, Belarus, and Moscow (Russia), in the center. So it is a representation of all these nations together.

On using of these symbols, it makes makes you the outsiders of the interests of the most Modern ukraine citizens.

On the contrary, the so-called anti-Russian nationalists are the minority. The majority of Ukrainian citizens have a favorable view of Russia.

If we want to have something in common, let's discuss many things that may unite us, either with poland or with Russia.
But different flags are liding to separating and to the borders between brother nations.

I welcome your proposal and I like your enthusiasm.

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by zhuk
Please, Last word and Andrej, note that Jarema is a polish, not ukrainian.

Hi, Zhuk

Well, Jarema looks like a good Ukie to me. I bet he is Ukrainian, maybe with some Polish ancestry.
I find his name puzzling if not provocative and his views are fresh, interesting and far from any stereotypes.
I would like to ensure people posting here that Poles have enough problems with Poland and they surely do not have any embracing of Ukraine in mind as TLW implies. We generally like our present borders and even the question of LVOV is an empty sentiment now. Our Lithuanian kings looked too much eastward, I must say. Now, Poles are trying to compensate it pointing westward. It is OK, but our orientation should be more balanced in future.
I would like to add that Poland of middle ages was bond by many ties with her Eastern neighbour Kievan Rus. Every generation of our kings and dukes of Piast dynasty looked for spouses in Kiev, Vladimir or Halicz. We were never involved in all out fights. That good balance was so brutally destroyed by Mongols in 1240. Poland was just much more lucky than Rus. The disintegration of Kievan Rus state was really a deplorable and sad fact.

[zhuk]

his name is really interesting, especially for me.
I have named my one year old son Jarema, by Count of Lubny and Wiscniewec (1612-1651).
But I am ready to bet, he is Polish.
A bet- best ukrainian vodka bottle vs best polish one?

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by zhuk
I have named my one year old son Jarema, by Count of Lubny and Wiscniewec (1612-1651).
A bet- best ukrainian vodka bottle vs best polish one?

Zhuk, congratulations on your son!
Wisniowiecki broke all conventions, I must say.
You know my sceptic views on the Count of Lubny, however his granddad's (?) story is equally unconventional. Dymitr Wisniowiecki was a hero of all Ukraine. He not only succesfully defended the Zaporhozije against Tartars, but also arranged the dare-devil raids on Crimean Peninsula. He was finally betrayed by Moldovians and transferred to Turks, who killed him in a terrible ways. He showed courage even in his last moment and it only added to his myth.

Well, vodka is not my favourite drink but one of the best Polish historians PaweЁ Jasienica stated something quite accurate concerning this traditional Slavonic liquid. Vodka used to be not as dangerous as soda in Poland, going to some Polish heads and making some of us put on airs.
I really do not know how to answer your vodka question because I do not remember any Ukrainian mark. I only know that many smugglers bring hectolitres of counterfeit alkohol through the Polish-Ukrainian and Polish- Byelorussian borders and it is really deplorable.