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Mixed Feelings In Odesa Over Saakashvili

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Old 4th June 2015, 03:09
Tkach Tkach is offline
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Saakashvili Ukraine's new governor in Odessa splits opinion - BBC News

"It shows how empty Petro Poroshenko's bench is, how little he trusts Ukrainians, and how he's running out of options," said one Western analyst, who asked not to be identified, because of the sensitivity of the subject.

Georgian Invasion of Ukraine Antagonizes Putin and Russia | Observer

Mr. Saakasvhili, who had served as his country’s President between 2004-2013, had been spending his days since leaving office alternating between being one the world’s most outspoken supporters of Ukraine’s struggle against Russia, and enjoying a hipster lifestyle of semi-retirement in Brooklyn. Meanwhile, the Georgian government has indicted Saakashvili on charges related to the violent dispersal of protests and other malfeasance.

Yes, sounds like a good choice....not.

Brian Mefford an American business and political consultant based in Kyiv characterized Mr. Poroschenko’s gamble on Saakashvili as,

”Ukraine needs results from reforms, not comfy government posts for Georgian politicians in exile. Either the reforms Saakashvili did in Georgia are transferable to Ukraine, with Odesa being the test case, or not. Saakashvili is like that player who talks a lot of smack off the field and now the coach is telling him to ‘put up or shut up’ and ‘let’s see if your fastball still has it.’”

Unfortunately, recent evidence suggests Mr. Saakashvili may have lost bit off his fastball. There is another side of Mr. Saakashvili’s Presidency in Georgia, one that was characterized by limited freedoms of media and assembly and tarring all opponents as pro-Russian in what one Georgian friend used to call “McCarthyashvilism.” Although, Mr. Saakashvili’s anti-Russian bluster has always been impressive, his judgment has not always been. An EU report, for example, placed much of the blame for Georgia’s disastrous 2008 war with Russia at the feet of Mr. Saakashvili. His tenure was also characterized by violently dispersing several demonstrations, stubbornly high unemployment and widespread abuse of prisoners. This last issue was particularly significant because under Saakashvili Georgia had one of the world’s highest rates of incarceration.

https://www.stratfor.com/analysis/re...ia-open-access
Opposition parties inside Georgia are planning mass protests for April 9, mainly in the capital city of Tbilisi but also across the country. The protests are against President Mikhail Saakashvili and are expected to demand his resignation. This is not the first set of rallies against Saakashvili, who has had a rocky presidency since taking power in the pro-Western “Rose Revolution” of 2003. Anti-government protests have been held constantly over the past six years. But the upcoming rally is different: This is the first time all 17 opposition parties have consolidated enough to organize a mass movement in the country. Furthermore, many members of the government are joining the cause, and foreign powers — namely Russia — are known to be encouraging plans to oust Saakashvili.

Regardless of anti-Russian/anti-Putin sentiments, he sounds like another Western puppet.

One can be concerned and even criticize the lack of Ukrainian appointments in the Government. It doesn't make one a 'troll.' Eventually, the populace will realize that this agenda/policy is not working either. There are few real reforms or improvements in society, economically or otherwise. But, the oligarchs and elites will still have their $$ and the foreign element will continue to profit and benefit. That's not just.
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Old 9th June 2015, 03:28
stepanstas stepanstas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Szary View Post
stepanstas, I agree, he is indeed very talented, that’s why he’s got as far as he has in his career and that’s why I referred to him as a boy wonder, it was meant as a compliment.

But it just seems so very very very odd that the former president of a country would run away to Ukraine and give up his own citizenship to become a governor in a far away country….

I wish him well, and I know you say his passion is sincere, so I hope you are right. And that he is not simply another opportunistic politician…God bless Poland's neighbor Ukraine..
Well, to be fair, it doesn't seem like there is much left for Saakasvhili to do with his Georgian citizenship. I think he loves Georgia a lot more than he does Ukraine, after following him for some time, you willl see that. But Georgia no longer cares for him (in grand scale) so if he can use his skills to help another country he loves, why not do it.
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Old 9th June 2015, 03:36
stepanstas stepanstas is offline
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Originally Posted by Tkach View Post
Saakashvili Ukraine's new governor in Odessa splits opinion - BBC News

"It shows how empty Petro Poroshenko's bench is, how little he trusts Ukrainians, and how he's running out of options," said one Western analyst, who asked not to be identified, because of the sensitivity of the subject.

Regarding how little he trusts Ukrainians or how he doesn't have a bench. Poroshenko has been in politics for a very long time under various presidents and administrations. I think he has a bench longer than most other politicians in Ukraine. Thats clearly not the issue. The issue is, he was elected to reform and thats just what he'll do.
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Old 12th June 2015, 02:00
Tkach Tkach is offline
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Originally Posted by stepanstas View Post
Regarding how little he trusts Ukrainians or how he doesn't have a bench. Poroshenko has been in politics for a very long time under various presidents and administrations. I think he has a bench longer than most other politicians in Ukraine. Thats clearly not the issue. The issue is, he was elected to reform and thats just what he'll do.
Unfortunately, you're incorrect and inaccurate in your evaluation. Yes, he's been with the 'old guard' for a while but that should be and is *relevant.* As for this reform bit, it's clear these reforms are not happening. Many Ukrainians are realizing this and this discontent will get worse. Sure, you can make a few moves but at the end of the day, it's little more than show. Not to mention, excluding native Ukrainians. It's not a reform if it's just a corrupt foreign bureaucrat and not a Ukrainian one.
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Old 12th June 2015, 02:09
Tkach Tkach is offline
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BTW, here's some articles/coverage/footage:

Large, conservative protest in Kyiv slams Poroshenko-Yatsenyuk government - New Cold War: Ukraine and Beyond

Poroshenko camp postpones key prosecutorial reforms

Odessa Protesters Give a Clear Warning to Poroshenko during his Visit - Fort Russ
(check video mostly - not comments etc.)

The point is, what I have come across is mostly discontent. Sure, the American mainstream articles regarding the Ukraine government will praise the reforms. It's not credible. There's no balance whatsoever and it only serves propaganda artists who will cry 'Junta government' instead of looking precisely at purely government politics and general reforms - that aren't coming.

When you separate undeserved praise and Kremlin propaganda from the equation, you still get a government that is not serving the people but pretending to do the most min. to serve elites and corrupt bureaucrats while distracting the people with empty promises.
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Old 12th June 2015, 03:55
stepanstas stepanstas is offline
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Reforms are not easy but they are happening. I'm not concerned with the Ukrainian public as that was expected, by me anyway. Ukrainians aren't going to be happy with either president.

With regards to progress, lustration laws are kicking in and reforms are happening. And your analogy of not giving Ukrainians a chance is false as Poroshenko only appoints so many people. Also keep in mind you have huge turnover in the parliament.

All in all Ukrainians today have more freedom then they ever did in the past. More work needed but that freedom began with Yuschenko. The discontent among certain groups is irrelevant to me as these people have no solution of their own. Also Poroshenko adopted the worst mess in Ukraine's independent history and there is a lot of cleanup to do.
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Old 15th June 2015, 00:02
Tkach Tkach is offline
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Originally Posted by stepanstas View Post
Reforms are not easy but they are happening. I'm not concerned with the Ukrainian public as that was expected, by me anyway. Ukrainians aren't going to be happy with either president.

With regards to progress, lustration laws are kicking in and reforms are happening. And your analogy of not giving Ukrainians a chance is false as Poroshenko only appoints so many people. Also keep in mind you have huge turnover in the parliament.

All in all Ukrainians today have more freedom then they ever did in the past. More work needed but that freedom began with Yuschenko. The discontent among certain groups is irrelevant to me as these people have no solution of their own. Also Poroshenko adopted the worst mess in Ukraine's independent history and there is a lot of cleanup to do.
This is nonsense. Imho. Look, it doesn't matter about the turnover but citizens have a reason to be upset and concerned when there is a constant hiring of foreigners (with no connection to Ukraine) especially many with shady connections or histories.

The 'clean-up' as you call it has been sketchy and there's been an endless number of complaints about corruption and status-quo proceedings. Of course, the Kremlin bots and anti-Western individuals/media/groups have jumped all over it. No surprise there as the government is an easy target.

'The discontent among certain groups is irrelevant to me as these people have no solution of their own.'
Oh, nice attitude. How do you know they have 'no solution?' What voice do they have? What groups are they? This sounds like the typical rhetoric of a voter who doesn't vote - thus, they have no right to a voice or along those lines. This thought process is further nonsense. Ukrainians should be running things and if they have to go through ABC numbers of people to find someone half decent, then so be it. Or at the very least, someone with some connection to Ukraine. The Government has been hiring Americans and Georgians - who have more connection with the previous country and it's sketchy at best. Imho, they should be new people, not 'career politicians' who have their hands in the previous regimes. Just my opinion, though.
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