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  #22 (permalink)  
Old 17th December 2014, 16:30
Tkach Tkach is offline
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Two questions: Are you allowed to criticize the current regime and still support Ukrainians here? It seems that if you don't 100% support the government, then you support demagoguery or dictators or something?

The new head of the National Security and Defense Council wants to go to war?!? So, they want to spend all their money they get (from loans) on having their citizens getting killed in war?!?

THEY HAVE NO MONEY!

UPDATE 1-EU says Ukraine needs $15 bln, has limited ability to help | Reuters

Yet...
https://www.kyivpost.com/content/ukr...pe-375391.html

Ukraine Must Create One of Europe’s Most Powerful Armies: Security Council / Sputnik International

What about all the people out of work?!?
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  #23 (permalink)  
Old 19th December 2014, 15:59
Tkach Tkach is offline
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Ukraine forms 'ministry of truth' to regulate the media

This always ends well.... well, at least, you know who they are imitating....

Зачем Украине «министерство правды»

Ukraine forms 'ministry of truth' to regulate the media | World news | The Guardian

“A year ago, I proposed that a ministry of propaganda be created”, said Sergey Kaplin, a deputy from Poroshenko’s bloc. “It would simply destroy separatism as a phenomenon as soon as it appeared in [Ukraine]”. Stets promises that his department will be dissolved as soon as the war ends."

Yes, and every Ukrainian will be filthy rich tomorrow...
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  #24 (permalink)  
Old 19th December 2014, 17:10
dobko dobko is offline
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"The Russian media has played a notable role in plunging Donbas into crisis: recall the inflammatory articles by Darya Aslamova, for instance. It is no accident that immediately after seizing the regional administration in Donetsk, the separatists took control of the TV towers.

You used to be able to defend Russian media in Ukraine by appealing to the need for pluralism but now, after Russian state TV presenter Dmitry Kiselev and his ilk broadcast stories about boys being crucified and slaves distributed among the national guard, that is no longer possible. What is more, the scale of the Russian propaganda campaign is exercising Nato and Kiev is obliged to support its western allies".

So why not attack the masters of propaganda under the umbrella of Putin's paid propagandist army? How would you fight the lies coming out of Moscow? What do you suggest?
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  #25 (permalink)  
Old 23rd December 2014, 22:16
Tkach Tkach is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by dobko View Post
"The Russian media has played a notable role in plunging Donbas into crisis: recall the inflammatory articles by Darya Aslamova, for instance. It is no accident that immediately after seizing the regional administration in Donetsk, the separatists took control of the TV towers.

You used to be able to defend Russian media in Ukraine by appealing to the need for pluralism but now, after Russian state TV presenter Dmitry Kiselev and his ilk broadcast stories about boys being crucified and slaves distributed among the national guard, that is no longer possible. What is more, the scale of the Russian propaganda campaign is exercising Nato and Kiev is obliged to support its western allies".

So why not attack the masters of propaganda under the umbrella of Putin's paid propagandist army? How would you fight the lies coming out of Moscow? What do you suggest?
Are you saying Ukrainians lack common sense? That, they cannot distinguish fact from fiction or that they don't have any suspicion when it comes to neo-Soviet/Kremlin-influenced media?

Do they not have their own media to dispute stories or show a different perspective? I don't think 'banning' is the solution. It might cause suspicion on its own and question why is it blocked? I have discussed the media with Russians and those in Russia. If they are already a 'Putinoid', you probably aren't going to be able to reason with said person. Even if you provide different media sources or explain a different view. But, some Russians are seemingly immune to Kremlin-force-fed info and are well aware of the propaganda. Good for them, I say. But, I don't think copying the Kremlin/Putinbot machine accomplishes what one wants. IF you believe in democracy, freedom of expression and information, then you have to allow BS, too. Perhaps, it's better that you promote free thinking, critical reasoning and investigating several sources and using common sense? I suggest that is better than blocking/banning those you don't like?
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  #26 (permalink)  
Old 29th December 2014, 21:56
Tkach Tkach is offline
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American Flag Graces the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) Building in Kiev (video) - Fort Russ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uffh...ature=youtu.be

I stated way back that Ukraine is not sovereign with their association with the US and the EU - so, in effect, this is no different than their subservience to the Kremlin, just a different dance partner. But, a number of people here are A-OK with this.

With tons of proof being provided every now and then, I think those who criticized me should be the ones singled out - for being wrong and being ignorant. They are obviously not concerned about Ukraine and one was an American. No wonder they have no problem with US/Israeli control.
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Old 30th December 2014, 18:15
Szary Szary is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkach View Post
American Flag Graces the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) Building in Kiev (video) - Fort Russ

I stated way back that Ukraine is not sovereign with their association with the US and the EU - so, in effect, this is no different than their subservience to the Kremlin, just a different dance partner. But, a number of people here are A-OK with this.
Tkach, in a manner of speaking you are correct - the Ukrainians have chosen to be subservient to another master. And that's okay, as long as they acknowledge it. For them, the US/EU is more beautiful, and perhaps it is, with a different price to be paid. I wish them luck, and for the sake of my relatives in Poland, I hope they become stable sooner rather than later.
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  #28 (permalink)  
Old 31st December 2014, 05:21
stepanstas stepanstas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Tkach View Post
American Flag Graces the Ukrainian Security Service (SBU) Building in Kiev (video) - Fort Russ

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Uffh...ature=youtu.be

I stated way back that Ukraine is not sovereign with their association with the US and the EU - so, in effect, this is no different than their subservience to the Kremlin, just a different dance partner. But, a number of people here are A-OK with this.

With tons of proof being provided every now and then, I think those who criticized me should be the ones singled out - for being wrong and being ignorant. They are obviously not concerned about Ukraine and one was an American. No wonder they have no problem with US/Israeli control.
What do you mean in control? What proof are you talking about? Stuff like this really annoys me because Russians flood the Internet with nonsense and the rest of the world believes it.

Rose Gottemoeller, a US official, had a working visit to Ukraine in December. She had a meeting in the SBU building, hence why the flag is there.

Try to link to credible sources instead of propaganda. Here is an explanation: У СБУ пояснили американський прапор на своєму фасаді - Korrespondent.net

Quote:
"There was an official visit of Deputy US State Department diplomatic protocol and the Host Party shall be obliged to hang the flag at the time of the meeting. Once it was over, removed the flag," - said the press office.
You're making it sound like the US just put their flag up there, permanently mounted it and said "this stays here now" (which by the way if the US was really in control of Ukraine, putting their flag publicly would be a very stupid thing to do).

Last edited by stepanstas; 31st December 2014 at 05:23. Reason: Added link
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