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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 7th August 2014, 09:59
witkacy52 witkacy52 is offline
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Michael's opinions, assuming that he is not Putin's agent are unusual in Poland maybe except among people more that 80 years old living nearby Ukraine, which suffered during WW2. I obviously know and understand this problem from the past but it's nothing to do with the present Ukraine and present Russian invasion it suffers. I've found Michael bringing ANY discussion to the same old story. I suggest him to visit a good psychologist, maybe he would improve his condition. And I suggest us to ignore him.

ALL Polish people I know fully support Ukraine's cutting Russian ties and transforming to the free country. I hope the world's actions together with Ukraine bloody fights in the east will eventually push off Russian terrorists and keep them out of the country. And what's the most important remove Putin's from his power, which is the only guarantee of a future's peace.
Slava Ukraini.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 7th August 2014, 19:47
Gavrilo Gavrilo is offline
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Where is Poland?

Then listen... Some time ago i talked to some Polish friends who were guests of Polish-Serbian friendship association, in Belgrade. All in all, Poles, as well as Serbs support Ukrainian territorial integrity and feel great solidarity with Ukrainians, no matter that they in the same time feel some frustrations in case with Lwow, Wilno and Brest that are now in Ukraine and, no matter that they worry because of banderists. We also agreed that negotiations don`t have alternative and that suffering of Slavic children must stop immediately in Ukraine.

Also, they don`t trust to EU/NATO leading powers (Serbs neither), which in Ukraine don`t defend Ukraine but their own interests. In short, we concluded our discussion in local cafe-bar, that Ukraine and Serbia needs to join to Visegrad group that could prove to be embryo of new Commonwealth. We agree that only new Commonwealth, as Polish Pilsudski suggested it, can secure interests of Poles-Ukrainians-Serbs and all other Eastern Europeans (not only Slavs) who live between west of Europe and Russia, from Baltic to Balkan and Black see. Only in Commonwealth we can prevent assimilation by west of Europe and avoid Russian domination.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 8th August 2014, 03:23
ex-nyer ex-nyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavrilo View Post
...with Lwow, Wilno and Brest that are now in Ukraine and...
Your point is clear enough, but just to be accurate, Wilno and Brest are not in Ukraine.
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 8th August 2014, 04:35
Gavrilo Gavrilo is offline
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Originally Posted by ex-nyer View Post
Your point is clear enough, but just to be accurate, Wilno and Brest are not in Ukraine.
then Belarus or Lithuania, isn`t it? They mentioned them, too.

In any case, they just mentioned that as some kind as historical injustice to Poland but, they are fine with current borders.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 9th August 2014, 11:43
MichaelB_PL MichaelB_PL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Albatross View Post
Ah okay, Poland should keep its territorial gains but Ukraine should give them up. Makes sense, after all Poland won the war. Oh wait, that's not true. Actually, Poland got wiped out in the "first 5 minutes" of WW II. In that light, it actually received a pretty sweet deal after the war.
I was speaking in terms of morality - it seems right to me that Germans were punished for starting WWII.

A bit of Polish now, more English at the bottom at the post

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Originally Posted by Darco View Post
Popieranie putina, kłamstw które mówi i zbrodni których dokonuje wskazuje na skłonności do kłamstwa i agresji oraz na popieranie takich zachowań, Tym samym na brak zasad moralnych
ROFL.

Jakich niby zbrodni? Zbrodni to dokonują Ukraińcy, świadomie wykorzystując lotnictwa i artylerii do bombardowania obszarów z ludnością cywilną. Ukraińcy oczywiście kłamią, nazywając zestrzelenie samolotu pasażerskiego atakiem terrorystycznym, ale wszystko wskazuje na to, że była to pomyłka - działanie mające na celu zestrzelenei ukraińskiego samolotu wojskowego, a jako pomyłka nie była to zbrodnia wojenna, ani jakakolwiek inna zbrodnia.

Co do kłamstw, to ja nie popieram kłamstw Putina, mówię wręcz otwarcie, że kłamią OBIE strony, a więc także Putin. To Ty popierasz tu kłamstwa - kłamstwa strony ukraińskiej. Co faktycznie - tak jak napisałeś - świadczy o braku zasad moralnych.

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Przy okazji jak do tej pory jedynym moim związkiem z Ukrainą jest pisanie na tym forum.
Nie wierzę. Gdybyś przebywał w polskim społeczeństwie, a nie np. wśrod ukraińskiej mniejszości w PL, to wiedziałbyś, że poglądy takie jak moje ma niemała część polskiego społeczeństwa. Zresztą wystarczy wejść na polskie fora. Nie wiesz o tym, czy kłamiesz że nie wiesz?

Quote:
Czy można być Polakiem popierając putina który jest wrogo do Polski nastawiony i szkodzi Polsce nie tylko ekonomicznie?
Jak można być Polakiem popierając banderowców, którzy morderców polskich kobiet i dzieci nazywają bohaterami?

Poza tym to nie Putin okupuje Lwów i wiele prywatnej własności należnej Polakom, a Ukraińcy.

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Originally Posted by BlueandGold View Post
The people of Poland AND Ukraine need to act according their conscience and memory.
BlueandGold, have you actually read and thought about the things I wrote before?

Quote:
Originally Posted by witkacy52 View Post
Michael's opinions, assuming that he is not Putin's agent are unusual in Poland maybe except among people more that 80 years old living nearby Ukraine, which suffered during WW2.
You're lying. Many people in Poland hold views similiar to mine. For example many think that both Russians and Ukrainians are savages and that it's not our matter. And references to Bandera's fascists and their genocide of Polish civilians during WWII are being brought up on Polish forums and in the comments.

BTW Few months ago there was a poll, according to which the amount of Poles thinking the Polish goverment is getting involved too much in Ukrainian matters is about twice the number of Poles thinking it's level of involvement is insufficient (34% vs 18%), with most people thinking it's adequate. And obviously, among those 34%, there are many kinds of opinions the Ukraine-supporters wouldn't like. I suspect that you could be among those 18%, and that would mean that overall you're a minority more than I am.

Sondaż: 1/4 Polaków uważa działania rządu ws. Ukrainy za zbyt radykalne - Wiadomości - polskieradio.pl

And finally - why are you lying about the views of Polish society? I suspect that you might be from the "Ukrainian fifth column" - the Ukrainian national minority in Poland, knowing Polish, but not being Polish.

Quote:
I obviously know and understand this problem from the past but it's nothing to do with the present Ukraine and present Russian invasion it suffers. I've found Michael bringing ANY discussion to the same old story.
Another lie. Events from WWII are indeed in the past, but the contemporary worship of fascist war criminals from UPA is not. It's right in the present - Ukrainians from AD2014 holding fascists and mass murderers of Polish civilians as heroes. Why would any person of decent morality support such scum?

Also, there is the matter of land and private property taken from the Poles by the Soviets, and currently in Ukrainian hands. Why should we support people, who hold our property? Do you for example know, that a Ukrainian court in Lwów (Lviv) recently denied the return of a Polish Roman Catholic church to the faithful? The church will be still used a non-religious concert hall. The Poles supporting Ukraine are naive fools - Ukrainians pretend they value the Polish support, but when it comes to practical matters, they are not even willing to do what justice would demand.

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ALL Polish people I know fully support Ukraine's cutting Russian ties and transforming to the free country.
I suspect you might be lying. Or perhaps dealing only with some isolated group.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavrilo View Post
In any case, they just mentioned that as some kind as historical injustice to Poland but, they are fine with current borders.
Many people who are more or less "fine" - accepting, but not pleased, still think about it in the context of the current conflict. Such people wouldn't support any agressive action toward Ukraine, but quite often also don't support giving any assistance to Ukraine. In other words, they are not agressive, but are often opposed to playing a selfless buddy for the people (Ukrainians), who benefited from injustice done to us.

Last edited by MichaelB_PL; 9th August 2014 at 12:45.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 9th August 2014, 22:19
Gavrilo Gavrilo is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB_PL View Post
BTW Few months ago there was a poll, according to which the amount of Poles thinking the Polish goverment is getting involved too much in Ukrainian matters is about twice the number of Poles thinking it's level of involvement is insufficient (34% vs 18%), with most people thinking it's adequate. And obviously, among those 34%, there are many kinds of opinions the Ukraine-supporters wouldn't like. I suspect that you could be among those 18%, and that would mean that overall you're a minority more than I am.

Sondaż: 1/4 Polaków uważa działania rządu ws. Ukrainy za zbyt radykalne - Wiadomości - polskieradio.pl
Poljski brate

First of all, thanks for the link.

Then, let me say few here... When we are at Poland`s role in Ukraine. To tell you frankly, when started crisis, i expected that would Poland play role of the mediator. That way, Poland would show that have positive and responsible role in the region. That way, with Polish mediation in Ukraine, between Ukrainians (Ukraine) and Russians (Russia), Poland would be even able to define and protect her direct interests, what would prepare ground for historical compromise of Poland and Ukraine, once when Ukrainians solve their problems with Russians. Not to say that would increased Poland`s presents in Ukraine reduce maneuverable space for German meddling in Ukraine (but instead we see that Germany penetrate there covertly behind official EU).

Obviously, we see that clearly, Poland`s partners from the west of Europe and USA plays their games without taking Poland seriously. Official Poland is there just to confirm stance of the USA, Germany, France and Britain. Truly humiliating. When one put it in the historical context, one should maybe even worry for Poland.

On the other side, what is encouraging, some statements of that Sikorski, as well as of tragically died Polish president Kaczynski - their open support to Serbians in case with Kosovo (with it oposing to west of Europe and USA), announcing some more pro-Polish politics of official Poland.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 10th August 2014, 05:24
Davor Davor is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Gavrilo View Post
Poljski brate

First of all, thanks for the link.

Then, let me say few here... When we are at Poland`s role in Ukraine. To tell you frankly, when started crisis, i expected that would Poland play role of the mediator. That way, Poland would show that have positive and responsible role in the region. That way, with Polish mediation in Ukraine, between Ukrainians (Ukraine) and Russians (Russia), Poland would be even able to define and protect her direct interests, what would prepare ground for historical compromise of Poland and Ukraine, once when Ukrainians solve their problems with Russians. Not to say that would increased Poland`s presents in Ukraine reduce maneuverable space for German meddling in Ukraine (but instead we see that Germany penetrate there covertly behind official EU).

Obviously, we see that clearly, Poland`s partners from the west of Europe and USA plays their games without taking Poland seriously. Official Poland is there just to confirm stance of the USA, Germany, France and Britain. Truly humiliating. When one put it in the historical context, one should maybe even worry for Poland.

On the other side, what is encouraging, some statements of that Sikorski, as well as of tragically died Polish president Kaczynski - their open support to Serbians in case with Kosovo (with it oposing to west of Europe and USA), announcing some more pro-Polish politics of official Poland.


Poland use to be great nation, but polish political elite today is the same as the all other political elites in Europe - American servants, deep in American ass.

Only one state in Europe is independent and free - Russia. And all of this mess in Ukraine is actually USA and NATO war against Russia, aiming its destabilisation and possible destruction..
Ukraine is just collateral damage and they fight for USA interests. But they don't see that, blind in their anti-Russian hatred and extreme Bandera-style nationalism.
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