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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 14th June 2014, 01:23
MichaelB_PL MichaelB_PL is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Oleg Kapral View Post
For example, Slovak nationalism in Europe threatens no one.
I think the Hungarian minority in Slovakia would disagree.


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Students in Paris say that fascism is in Ukraine, not Russia. I was worried because it takes place in democratic countries such as France, Germany and Sweden. I considered Sweden as a model of democracy.
But it is true - there IS fascism in Ukraine, especially western Ukraine.There are monuments and streets named "in honor" of fascists like Bandera. There are celebrations dedicated to SS Galizien division.

One clearly visible thing is that many Ukrainians are unwilling to even admit that there is a continuously cultivated fascist legacy in Ukraine, never mind actually doing something to confront and eliminate it.
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Old 14th June 2014, 14:30
Oleg Kapral Oleg Kapral is offline
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slovaks no one bothers to live democratically in hungary or hungarians in transcarpathia.

the main features of fascism are: no freedom of speech (no independent press, TV ...); no independent judiciary; no free vote (no democracy); prosecution of national and religious grounds; disregard the rights and laws; ideology (the idea of rule); leaderism and mesionizm; contempt for life; party monopoly (or a bunch of ideologies); propohanda aggression (creation enemy). all this was in the ussr, and now are in russia. one word: ligament. nazi germany was not persecution on religious grounds. only thing that distinguishes nazi germany in the past and neo facism russian today.

Jewish Rabbi was a friend to Stepan Bandera as advisor.
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Old 14th June 2014, 15:19
MichaelB_PL MichaelB_PL is offline
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Originally Posted by Oleg Kapral View Post
slovaks no one bothers to live democratically in hungary or hungarians in transcarpathia.
? How could the Slovaks bother Hungarians in Hungary or in Transcarpathia?

Slovaks DO bother and mistreat the Hungarian minority living in Slovakia.

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the main features of fascism are: no freedom of speech (no independent press, TV ...); no independent judiciary; no free vote (no democracy); prosecution of national and religious grounds; disregard the rights and laws; ideology (the idea of rule); leaderism and mesionizm; contempt for life; party monopoly (or a bunch of ideologies); propohanda aggression (creation enemy). all this was in the ussr, and now are in russia. one word: ligament. nazi germany was not persecution on religious grounds. only thing that distinguishes nazi germany in the past and neo facism russian today.
1. Not that Russia is perfect, but saying it's almost indistinguishable from Nazi Germany is going way to far.

2. Somehow it's (western) Ukraine which is full of worship of fascist leaders like Bandera, parades in honor of SS Galizien and so on.

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Jewish Rabbi was a friend to Stepan Bandera as advisor.
Stepan Bandera was a fascist leader, and his followers were murdering Jews and Poles - these are the facts.

There is a cult of fascism in western Ukraine and no amount of denying will make it less real.
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Old 14th June 2014, 15:31
GoodLuckUkraine GoodLuckUkraine is offline
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Fascist, nationalist, racist, anti-semitic and other extremist groups exist in all countries in the world, including Europe. But they remain a small minority.

The recent rise of right-wing anti-EU feeling and voting across Europe is certainly undesirable but despite big gains and wins, is still a very small minority in Europe. Also, much of that far-right voting was cast by ordinary people who wanted to send a message of protest to the EU about the direction it is heading.

Right-wing, anti-EU and anti-immigration party; UKIP may now be the largest single party representing the UK in Brussels, but it still only got 27% of the UK vote.

Same is true in France, the National Front "won" the European elections in France...but still only had 24% of the vote.
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Old 14th June 2014, 16:01
MichaelB_PL MichaelB_PL is offline
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Originally Posted by GoodLuckUkraine View Post
Fascist, nationalist, racist, anti-semitic and other extremist groups exist in all countries in the world, including Europe. But they remain a small minority.
I'm afraid you don't know the situation in western Ukraine (Galicia and Volyn).

In western Ukraine, there is a cult of fascist traditions, which is not marginal at all and which has in fact very wide support. There are monuments and streets named in the "honor" of the fascist leader S. Bandera, there are parades of veterans of the SS division "Galizien".

Basically, just like Russia never really confronted the legacy of communism, legacy of Stalin, (western) Ukraine never confronted the legacy of Ukrainian fascism, called euphemistically "nationalism" by Ukrainians.
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Old 14th June 2014, 16:18
@codycoyote37 @codycoyote37 is offline
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Downing of IL-76, Lugansk

Ukrainians grieve, stiffen resolve; IL-76 Crash photos, Map location, SAM speculation: Visit my Twitter: https://twitter.com/codycoyote37

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Old 14th June 2014, 18:33
GoodLuckUkraine GoodLuckUkraine is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB_PL View Post
In western Ukraine, there is a cult of fascist traditions, which is not marginal at all and which has in fact very wide support. There are monuments and streets named in the "honor" of the fascist leader S. Bandera, there are parades of veterans of the SS division "Galizien".

Basically, just like Russia never really confronted the legacy of communism, legacy of Stalin, (western) Ukraine never confronted the legacy of Ukrainian fascism, called euphemistically "nationalism" by Ukrainians.
You're right, I don't understand Ukraine anywhere near as much as I'd like and I've not even heard of S. Bandera (I'll do some reading later) but surely the majority of Ukrainians are decent people and not nasty racists?
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