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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 11th March 2014, 00:55
Crimean guest Crimean guest is offline
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First you told about Russian propaganda in the Crimea but all TV channels were just ukrainian. Its the first point. We have to watch maidan's events through their point of view not Russian/ Secondly we dont have any problems with Yanucovich and in a year we would be able to choose a new president/ But more than half a country chose him as a president like you this fact or not. People in maidan are different but there are aggresive ones (many) / I have friends in Kiev so its the fact. Their leaders are nacists. And they call people to start war with the former government. So they are guilty in the death of people. Tiagnibok> Lyashko Farion and some others are real nacists and its a fact/ Besides they are old enough in the government and they are also the representatives of corruption. Fourth the first their step was to decline the language law but not to improve economy/ Fifth they are very agressive to the Russian language people/ The representatives of the Maidan beat the people and the bus from Crimea when it was fighting in Kiev/ They dont want to listen anybody.
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 11th March 2014, 01:13
Crimean guest Crimean guest is offline
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witkacy52 I try to answer your direct questions. The majority of Crimean people support current presence of the soldiers in the Crimea/ They defend us/, they arent agressive at all/ We really dont know who they are but everybody like them/ They defend our interests and its the main point/ They help Crimean people. so you understood they help Crimean government which people of the Crimea respect very much. Its our choice>As for me Maidan was a prepared long time ago action/ So maybe Putin made the Maidan??? We asked the help of Russia because of the events in Kiev!!! Dont you understand it? So dont make the President of ERussia a conqueror/ Europe needs our markets more!
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 11th March 2014, 03:07
ex-nyer ex-nyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Crimean guest View Post
...more than half a country chose him as a president like you this fact or not...
Deduct the Crimean votes for Yanukovych (since you seem to want to secede anyway), and that's no longer a true statement. Hey, have fun with the Tatars, my Crimean sockpuppet, but when they become radicalised (as they will) and start blowing up your theatres and train stations, what will you do? Deport them again? Kill them all? Blame the western Ukrainians?
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 11th March 2014, 07:18
stepanstas stepanstas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by MichaelB_PL View Post
Stepanstas, are you aware that virtually every extremist and genocide perpetrator group has a top-level goal that isn't evil in itself? What makes them different is HOW they think the top-level goal should be achived. In that context your "All they fought for was their freedom." is meaningless, because something similiar could be said about every other "problematic" group.

The top priority goals of Turk perpetrators from the Armenian Genocide weren't about causing deaths of Armenians - they thought they did it for Turkey, for Turkish people. The same goes for the perpetrators in Rwanda, former Yugoslavia, etc etc. Even Hitler's top-level motivation, perhaps contrary to popular belief, wasn't to hurt the Jews - he wanted to hurt them in a misguided attempt to help his own people. In less serious, merely terroristic cases, IRA or ETA's top level goals are also defined as freedom, but what makes them pathological are the ways they try to achive them.

We DID have the problems you describe. We were partitioned between 3 empires before WWI. And somehow I don't know about Poles butchering German, Austrian or Russian civilian population, even during the uprisings.

No, you're aproaching this from the completely wrong direction. Fascism and neo-nazi are words that are used far TOO SELDOM by Ukrainians when it comes to OUN/UPA and it's contemporary cult among western Ukrainians - not only these days, but for the whole decades.

Russian propaganda is simply going for the opening, because it's easier to make propaganda if there actually is a factual basis for it. In other words, Maidan Ukrainians are partially guilty of what it acuses them of.
I'm not going to debate OUN/UPA with you, because we just won't come to an agreement and that's fine. Hitler, Stalin, etc were not under threat, they created their threats. Ukrainians were squeezed from all sides and in that matter by Poles. The two organizations had no goal above an independent Ukraine. They had no desire to expand, occupy, or anything else. They just wanted their land. OUN declared Ukraine's independence in 1941. Ukraine wouldn't be where it is today if it weren't for them. Not everything is pretty but not much in history is.
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  #40 (permalink)  
Old 11th March 2014, 07:20
stepanstas stepanstas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by witkacy52 View Post
Dear All.

As originally Polish I am very well aware of UPA Ukrainian nationalists from the past.
But currently talking about it is exactly what I raised at the very beginning - the Russian propaganda. This is in their interests to focus on the issue that is completely minor, to show every Maidan participant in this way to scare Russian-speaking part of nation.

This is the old story, and whatever happened that time, it has nothing to do with the current situation. Even is a few (but highly visible) people admit themself descendant of it, they are insignificant in a crowd of honest people trying to regain their country back. Those people can see this minority as much as I can and they won't give them any power. As far as I know Kiev is quiet and safe now, after Yanukovych has left and his henchmen has dispersed (anybody from Kiev here?).
I am in complete agreement with you.
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  #41 (permalink)  
Old 11th March 2014, 07:25
stepanstas stepanstas is offline
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Originally Posted by Crimean guest View Post
Besides they are old enough in the government and they are also the representatives of corruption.
That is completely untrue of both Tyahnibok and Lashko. Tyahnibok doesn't have party-swappers in his party. His party is all fresh to the Parliament. Lashko thinks there should be a 20 year limit to serving in the government and everyone who was in the government before the fall should be long gone.
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  #42 (permalink)  
Old 11th March 2014, 07:28
stepanstas stepanstas is offline
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Originally Posted by Crimean guest View Post
witkacy52 I try to answer your direct questions. The majority of Crimean people support current presence of the soldiers in the Crimea/ They defend us/, they arent agressive at all/ We really dont know who they are but everybody like them/ They defend our interests and its the main point/ They help Crimean people. so you understood they help Crimean government which people of the Crimea respect very much. Its our choice>As for me Maidan was a prepared long time ago action/ So maybe Putin made the Maidan??? We asked the help of Russia because of the events in Kiev!!! Dont you understand it? So dont make the President of ERussia a conqueror/ Europe needs our markets more!
But the fact of the matter is, there was absolutely no threat. Nobody was coming to get you. And if all you truly saw was Ukrainian TV, you should have never believed such things because there was no substance to back that up. Furthermore, your true brothers are your neighbors guarding Ukrainian bases, who face constant threats from your fake brothers there to protect you. Those men are not from the west, they are from Crimea.
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