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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 9th March 2014, 16:53
Hannia Hannia is offline
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We just want to make referendum and we have to fight for it.
Where will Crimeans get their water and energy after Crimea secedes from Ukraine?
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As per Budapest Memorandum, a referendum can be called, but the country of Ukraine has to be involved.

BTW what will the ethnic Russians do w/the Tartar, who have reclaimed their properties? Will they be put on trains and sent back to the Sakhalin mines?
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 9th March 2014, 17:10
Crimean guest Crimean guest is offline
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Hannia. Where are you from? I'm just interested in. I'll start from the Crimean tatars. We have been living together for many years rather friendly. Nacists tried to quarrel us following their own interests using Tatars just to gain their interest. But in fact they dont respect any other nation except ukrainians. Crimean population is about 2 million. 12 percent are Crimean tatars. Only 12 percent! Besides some of them also support Russia. Its true. Thats why we need a referendum to understand the real figures. If we became the state of Russia noone is going to push Tatars away. And everybody knows that fact. They will live with us as before. Besides we have many other nationalities in Crimea.
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 9th March 2014, 17:14
Crimean guest Crimean guest is offline
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What about water and energy? Crimea is a good payer to the central organisations that supply us water and energy. We dont have any debts. Thats why every question canbe agreed by the government. And you know it but just tried to provoke/Thats why I just repeat the question : where are you from?
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 9th March 2014, 19:32
Hannia Hannia is offline
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You have lived in Krym for the last 30 yrs and the indigenous Tartar were only permitted to return in 1989. The Tartar are still waiting for the world and specifically Russia to acknowledge that the Sürgünlik was indeed a genocide and a holocaust. Yes, the population of Tartar in Crimea is only 12%, because appx 50% of them never got off the transfer trains in the forced resettlement to gulags process. Here you are an enlightened 21st century ethnic Russian and computer user, and you think that killing babies and old people is acceptable, because Stalin declared them Nazi. In reality Stalin was only interested in creating room for your own family's resettlement to Crimea.

Why We Should Care About Crimea - Bloomberg View
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Quote:
What about water and energy?
It would be foolish for you to continue thinking that nothing in your world will change under Putin's protection. Do you honestly think that your children will control their own future?

For now you will only win the moment, but you cannot expect an internationally illegal referendum to resolve whatever issues you may have.
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I personally think that Crimea would be better off as an independent country.

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Last edited by Hannia; 9th March 2014 at 20:37.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 9th March 2014, 20:22
MichaelB_PL MichaelB_PL is offline
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Originally Posted by witkacy52 View Post
I think you Ukrainians should do all you can to open the eyes of Russia. To tell them the truth, to give some balance to all this biased lies that they hear every day. To tell them how it really looks, who you really are and what you really want. To show them that you are not 'nacists' and 'terrorists' as you are presented in their media but normal people trying to live normal, honest lives.
Dear Witkacy, the problem is that when Russian propaganda presents Maidan supporters as "Nazis" or "Fascists", there is some truth in that.

As a Polish person (or just born in Poland?) you should know that Maidan has strongest support in the Western Ukraine, exactly where people treat fascists and war criminals from OUN and UPA as "heroes". Those people build monuments to fascists who mass murdered tens of thousands of Polish civilians during WWII and don't seem to feel much remorse or shame about it.

Of course Russian propaganda is well, propaganda and not truth - it tries to present Maidan as a 100% nazi/fascist group, which is not true. But then again neither is the pro-Maidan propaganda, which likes to downplay the significance of fascist sympathizers in the Maidan.

An example of a more balanced view:

BBC News - Ukraine's revolution and the far right
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 9th March 2014, 20:57
Crimean guest Crimean guest is offline
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Hannia. you ignored my question^ where are you from?
MichaelB_PL. I almost agree with you. Really Maidan in Kiev gathered different people with different opinions. But the most radical and agressive part of them is THE RIGHT SECTOR. They follow the ideas and signs of the nacists and fascists of Ukraine during World War the Second. I think Polish people know even better than Russian what crimes tjo the peaceful people they did during World Wa the Second. So supporting them yju support real neofascists in Ukraine/ Just think of it!!!
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 9th March 2014, 21:21
stepanstas stepanstas is offline
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Originally Posted by Crimean guest View Post
Gotno Gizmo. as I understood you live in Lugansk in Ukraine. As I know most people in your region support Russia also. And are you sure that the new government will lead you to the way free of corruption? I dont think so. Ukrainians just changed the govenment but not the system. The new government of Ukraine is worse than that of Yanucovich. At least give us the chance to return to Russia. Its our right. Time shows what will be. And even if we dont have the better life it will be our mistake but I dont think so and most Crimeans also. We just want to make referendum and we have to fight for it. Is it normal in the democratic society?
What you're saying doesn't make logical sense. The new government of Ukraine may very well be corrupt, but it's temporary. The elections are scheduled for the next president. The next president will be able to call a vote for parliament if that president feels its necessary. That is what democracy does. A democracy does not separate itself from a country just because it doesn't get something it's way.

And by the way, you don't have a choice. The referendum is illegal and does not give you a choice. A legal referendum asks you a simple yes or no question. This referendum does not give you the option to keep things as they are. You basically have the opportunity to pick between 2 choices your representatives have given you, not the choices you would like to make.

And the is a difference between people in Lugansk supporting Putin/Russia and denouncing their own nation for Putin/Russia. I support many countries around the world. That doesn't mean I want to merge with them.
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