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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 3rd March 2014, 21:30
Inga Ukraine Inga Ukraine is offline
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We will have to fight if there are no other peaceful solutions
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Old 3rd March 2014, 21:42
Let It Rock Let It Rock is offline
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What if the majority of the population of Crimea vote in a democratic referendum to be independent or become again part of Russia? If you ask the right of independence of Ukraine from Russia, you can't deny Crimea the same right to be independent from Ukraine.
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Old 4th March 2014, 04:22
stepanstas stepanstas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Let It Rock View Post
What if the majority of the population of Crimea vote in a democratic referendum to be independent or become again part of Russia? If you ask the right of independence of Ukraine from Russia, you can't deny Crimea the same right to be independent from Ukraine.
Crimea is a complicated situation. It has a very long and dark history. At the present, Putin has continously moved his national in there and continiously offered Ukrainian's Russian passports. This was no last minute plan, it has been in the works for a long time. Besides, Russians don't get a vote in Ukraine. The fact that they hold dual citizenship is another story.
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Old 4th March 2014, 04:23
stepanstas stepanstas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darco View Post
I think that most of EU and Obama just behave like a group of idiots.
They support Putin to build north stream and south stream and incorporate him in G8 and other organisations.
Like they couldn't understand anything.
Another issue is that US and GB should support Ukraine military because of 1994 pact.
Theirs words are worthless.
So do you think that in such a situation fighting is worse than not fighting?
Can the US do more? Yes. Can it act more quickly? Yes. But I can completely understand wanting to have international support. Unfortunately Merkel sells herself for Russian gas. The US, for now, is left dry.

The question is, once Ukraine starts fighting back, will anyone help it?
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Old 4th March 2014, 08:42
Darco Darco is offline
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I am very sorry to say that but Crimea is lost now.
Putin knows that West will do nothing.
They don't care about countries like Ukraine.
Some people like me in Poland understand a little bit more that East Ukraine will be next and then...
who knows, maybe whole Ukraine and Poland later.

Problem is not that fight don't help.
Problem is that not fighting is exactly what happened in 1938.
Probably Ukrainians know history from another point of view but...
1. Anschluss of Austria
Anschluss - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Result of "anschluss" was that west Czechoslovakia was surrounded by Germany from north, west and south
File:Czechoslovakia location map.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (considering Austria was with Germany)
2. Germans incorporated so called "Suddetenland"
Sudetenland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
It was area armored with bunker to protect Czechoslovakia.
Reason was obviously "to protect Germans and German spoken people" (who lived of course peacefully earlier there)
Result was that Czechoslovakians were extremely sad and unable to fight
3. Czechoslovakia was divided in 3 pieces.
West part was just in Germany.
Middle part was called "Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia" Protectorate of Bohemia and Moravia - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
and East part was called "Slovak Republic" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slovak_...9%E2%80%931945)
but... don't be optimistic. They had also to cooperate with nazi Germany.
Result? Poland was surrounded from west(obviously), North("Danzig" was also German in practice) and South(there was no "Czechoslovakia" now).
File:Rzeczpospolita 1938.svg - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia (don't forget, German solders are in Czechoslovakia and Danzig now).
4. Invasion on Poland. Maybe not everybody knows that 01.09.1939 Germany attacked Poland from north, west and south.
Even less people know that 17.09.1939 Russians attacted Poland from East.
Invasion of Poland - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Was there any chance to win? Of course not!
So why Polish started to fight?
ONLY because it postponed German attack to France and England and even Soviet Union and finally caused German defeat in 1945 and Polish full freedom in 1989.

That's my point of view as a Pole.
And that's why Ukraine should start fighting when Russia will attach East part of your country.
They won't stop in Donetsk and Charkiv.
Putin is willing to fill Stalin's will just to make whole Europe Russian.
2014=1938
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Old 4th March 2014, 20:20
ex-nyer ex-nyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by stepanstas View Post
...The question is, once Ukraine starts fighting back, will anyone help it?...
Vitayu, Stepane (my own name, BTW),

I'll answer your question with another: has anyone ever helped her? Same answer to both questions, I'm sad to say: no.
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Old 4th March 2014, 20:29
ex-nyer ex-nyer is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Darco View Post
... "to protect Germans and German spoken people" (who lived of course peacefully earlier there)...
Exactly the same logic that Putin is using. I wonder whether the US would appreciate Russia extending this logic to Brighton Beach (not that the US doesn't have its own hypocrisy to answer for).

Quote:
...2014=1938...
I pray you're wrong but fear you're right.
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