The greate RUS or why Ukrain's afraid of union with Russia.

[Stephen_Bailey]

Stas,

I welcome your criticism of my opinions (and of me myself).

However. I simply suggested (and still do) that the best hope for Ukraine is (much) greater co-operation with Russia and the E.U.

I asked you a question - and you haven't answered it.

I'll ask again. You reject my opinions (ok) but what please is YOUR alternative??

I want to know & I'm sure Arkadi does too?

By the way. The people of Poland are just as proud of their nationality and heritage as the people of Ukraine. They are also a nation which, like Ukraine, has been ravaged by both Russia and Germany IN THE PAST.
How do you explain Poland's great enthusiasm for E.U. membership?
Don't you want the same for your country ?
If not, tell us why.

Thanks.

S.B.

[Irena]

Let's join Russia to Great Britain! I will look at Stephen's face in a couple of years. They will drop some bombs on Stephen's head, will make him to learn russia language and then they will excile Stephen to Siberia. From there, from bear's lair Stephen will tell us about many kinds of unions.
Poor, poor my Englishman. You are still wet behind the ears. Read more, analyse more.
You can begin together with Arkadij.

[NORRYM]

The Russian side must enjoy this digression into the EU, while it {the Russian side} is pushing its agenda. There is NO ANALOGY between the EU and any union with Russia. Any hint of equivalence only serves to compliment the Russian side. Since there is no analogy, what other link is there?

emkay/02/22/01


[Edited by NORRYM on 23rd February 2001 at 07:17]

[Stephen_Bailey]

Norrym,

Thanks! It's real refreshing to be disagreed with by someone who can do it without getting 'personal'.
Much appreciated.

Ok. What I meant was, if (in the future) Russia & Ukraine were both E.U. states they would be "united" in the same way that present E.U. states are. I ABSOLUTELY didn't mean to suggest that Ukraine should 'subvert' itself to Russia, or become part of Russia. Of course not.

Irena,

Hello Do you really believe what you said?
Please, think about it. Britain, France and Germany have been "dropping bombs on each other" for 1,000 years.
That'll never happen again.
Nowadays, we fight only with words.
We also respect EUROPEAN law, even when it conflicts with our national interest.
Why on earth would Russia "drop bombs" on Britain?

S.B.

[steve_vlasenko]

Stephen,

All right you spent a couple of weeks in Ukraine, congrats▓┘ I▓m the Market Division Eastern Europe▓s Marketing Director. I know the area very well, particularly in regard to EU integration. Do you think Ukraine doesn▓t want to join the EU! Of course it does. There was a briefing at No10. 2 weeks ago on the very subject.
Ukraine is not pursuing a policy of isolationism, only an idiot would, it trades heavily with Russia, I know this for a fact as I work in this very field. However, what is does not need is a union with Russia as it would become a weaker partner and it would be even more difficult to establish itself on the word stage. I would guess you affiliated to the SWP with the idealistic views of international trade and development.

By the way The Economist is a Laughing stock of any East European academic department. It still refers to Ukraine as THE Ukraine for God▓s sake.

Arkadi
From the CER. The majority of Ukraine speaks Ukrainian. In Khakiv and Odessa as cities, Russian is spoken more widely, but not in the oblast. The only area of Ukraine to speak more Russian than Ukrainian is Crimea. Where is you information from regarding people from Sevastopol, Odessa, Donetsk, Harkov, people in them (mostly)still want to be in Union with Russia . Voting paterns just don▓t bare this out. Bring me your evidence.

Poets! What about Shevchenko!

Your point about the suppression of language is somewhat vacuous, so what if they did it to other countries, even more reason not to become the b*stard child.

Stas is right none of the contributors to this board follow the Red & Black, but that doesn▓t entail any willingness to roll over to Russian dominance.

Vlas.

[Lina]

Dear Stephen_Bailey!

Britain, France and Germany have been "dropping bombs on each other" for 1,000 years.
That'll never happen again.
Nowadays, we fight only with words.
We also respect EUROPEAN law, even when it conflicts with our national interest.

S.B. [/B][/QUOTE]

Just to clear things up...
Were France & Germany eager to form a European Uion just after a WW2? Why not? Were they a little pissed of on each other?
O.K. Let me give you another example...Immagine coming into a U.S. afer a revolutionary war(long time ago) and sayig :" Hey guys, don't you want to have a union with Britain again? just a little one?"

I immagine the reaction!

P.S>

I personally think, that Steve V is right. Ukraine must be doing a lot of business with Russia. But, Probably it will be even better if Ukraine can try to rebuild it's economy by "uniting" more with other countries as well, IMHO.

I know that Ukrainian economy is in a pretty bad shape...what scares western investors? Ukrainian laws?
Thanks to anyone who answers.

[Rusnak]

Dear Lina,

In response to your question:
-------------------------------------------------------
I know that Ukrainian economy is in a pretty bad shape...what scares western investors? Ukrainian laws?
-------------------------------------------------------

I think the answer is in part the general underlying Ukrainian mentality which I very poorly attempted to address in my postings to Ukraine.com Discussion Forum > History > Ukrainians and Russians = One People.

I▓m sure there are a great many wonderful Ukrainian individuals who are trying hard for their country, but they are fighting against a bad political and legal system that continues to exist due to (in my opinion) the Ukrainian people themselves.

If someone would drop 50 million of my Americans or 50 million of Stephen Bailey▓s Englishmen into Ukraine, they would peacefully revolt against the crap that goes on in poor Ukraine √ it would not be allowed to continue year after year.

Don▓t take all this literally, I▓m just trying to make a point √ which if Ukraine really wants foreign investment and growth and political improvement, then they must change themselves first. Otherwise, they might remain where they are for a long time.... which is a shame for such a geographically rich country.

-Rusnak