The greate RUS or why Ukrain's afraid of union with Russia.

[StasUA]

Stephen_Bailey,

Why is it suppose to be Ukraine&Russia joining EU? Both could join EU seperately. And I would be more than happy if Ukraine would've joining EU.

Arkadi, as for a union with Russia - this is nonsense! After all that happened, and it was stopped some 10 years ago, you still talk about unification? With a country like Russia - unification is impossible, it has never been done and never will be. Russia can only force someone to become a russian province...

However, maybe if Russia will change and the nationalism will be left behind in both countries. Maybe there will be a chance of recreating "Kyivan-Rus" - but what language will they speak? Ukrainian, Russian or Belarusian? Or maybe you'd suggest ancient-rus language

Good luck,
Stas

[NORRYM]

If one studies Kievan Rus' history, from uncorrupted sources, the 'division' is nowhere recorded. What is recorded, is that some renegade princes left Kievan Rus' to new lands, located towards the north-east, and formed new principalities. Prior to that event, and subsequently, those lands were never claimed by Kievan Rus'. Instead, to the opposite, one principality, namely that of Muscovy, after adopting the name Rossiya, began laying claim to Kievan Rus'. That claim first arose after the year 1380, in which the Duchy of Muscovy defeated mongols. On the basis of some twisted logic, the Russians are persisting in their appeal to Ukrainians to come back and reunite. Historically, it should be Ukraine's prerogative, if it decided to choose so, to invite Russia to join Ukraine, by returning into the fold of what was once Kievan Rus'. In the event, this was proposed and the Russians agreed, we could start referring to them, as 'Little Ukrainians'.
emkay/0/22/01

[Edited by NORRYM on 23rd February 2001 at 02:33]

[steve_vlasenko]

Arkadi,

How about the illegality of our language, the attempts to stave to death Ukrainian conscience, the sending to the larger of our intelligencia our poets and any other dissident you care to think of.

Referring to Ukraine as NA rather than V, to connote that Ukraine is only a territory rather than a country. The list goes on, you don▓t have to be widely read to have picked some of this up.


Stephen, can I get some of your stuff, if you think we are moving to a USE then you▓re either on something very strong or you▓ve got no idea about the EU.

Take Care,

Vlas.

[Arkadi_]

If this topic was discussed then please tell me where to find it, I'll read it and maybe that will give me a clue in to the Ukrainian nationalism.

Which Ukrainian poets did Russia try to kill, maybe Gogol?
But you prabobly talk about comunism, and the Soviet Union.
Well, poets and itellectuals from evrywhere were send to prisons, not only from Ukraine (still doesn't exuse it though).
The illigality of Ukrainian, was a very stupid thing, but even that wasn't applied to only Ukraine. Besides, the "Russian" languege that they talked on before the revolution was a lot closer to Ukrainian than the present one for moscow and ST-Petersburg and Voroneg.
Soviet union was about a world-wide ideology, not disendants of one city-state dominating the disendants of another.
But what about the cities like Sevastopol, Odessa, Donetsk, Harkov, people in them (mostly)still want to be in Union with Russia.

[Stephen_Bailey]

Hi Everyone

Well, I expected heavy criticism - and thanks to all of you.
Even LippyChick.

I know there's a lot of bad feeling between Russia and Ukraine. Well, if 'you people' are happy for that to continue, that's your right.
What about Britain and France? or Britain and Germany? or Britain and Ireland? We're not wasting time keeping old hostilities alive any-more. What's the point? it's stupid.

In the USA there are millions of people who are proud to call themselves Irish-Americans, or Ukrainian-Americans or Russian-Americans etc; but at the end of the day they're all American and that's what holds them together.
If we EUROPEANS can't achieve the same, we'll continue to be a 2nd-rate continent - until the 'asian tigers' push us into 3rd place.
Is that what you want?

If some of you would like to waste your time and energy making personal attacks on people you don't agree with, fine.

I've spent enough time in Ukraine to see the country isn't doing as well as it could and a recent issue of The Economist claimed the average wage in Ukraine is HALF that of Russia.
Are YOU happy with that? if you are, fine. That's your right. if not, how would YOU dig your country out of the mess it's in?

Arkadi; I can only apologise for the negativity. It is a feature of all boards on this site. My advice is, ignore all the abuse and press on. I thought your title was a good one and I'm sure someone else out there has something positive to say.

Regards.

S.B.

[StasUA]

Stephen_Bailey,

Who's happy with that? What are you talking about? Are you saying that unification with Russia will ceise all the problems? If that's how you look on it ... I don't know what to tell you... you're just another addition to this new-wave of naive,yelling.. selfinventing .. people..

Arkadi,

If you're looking for Ukrainian nationalists here, don't try, you won't find any ... however Ukraine.com represents many international nationalists

And discriminational against Ukraine was not only done during Soviet time, but a lot of it happened during Russian-Empirialistic times.

But this is going all-over again and again... you, nationalists, I'm so tired of you that I won't reply anymore.. I'm talking about those kids-minded ones.

Good luck,
Stas

[Irena]

Arkasha,
where are you from?