Future (chances) of Ukraine

[Bartosz]

Ukraine, with its complex ethnicity, devastated infrastructure and outdated economy, short of democtratic traditions, quasi dependend on Russia has enigmatic future.

How do you estimate chances of Ukraine for maintaining its status?

[steve_vlasenko]

If one minute I thought the Pol nationalist was interested in a discussion of this nature I would more than willing to participate, we could discuss the expanse of the FMGC's and Telecoms . However, this is evidently nothing more than a thinly disguised attempt of the Pol nationalist to spread his hatred towards Ukraine.

Vlas

[Bartosz]

I found such a interesting note about Ukraine (on CIA, everybody knows how biased are these fellows):

http://www.odci.gov/cia/publications...up.html#People

I would like to turn your attention to the following indexes:

- Population below poverty line: 50% (1999 est.)
-GDP - per capita: purchasing power parity - $2,200 (1999 est.)
Ethnic groups: Ukrainian 73%, Russian 22%, Jewish 1%, other 4% .

[Pierogies_4_Life]

Hey Bart!
I think your a little bit pessimisitic about Ukraine, because not only Ukraine is dependent on the Russian Federation. What about our homeland (Poland ~ if your Polish because I am) major political and economical struggles are occuring in Poland. There's alot of people on social welfare (PL ~ Opieka Spoleczna) and they depend on little money that the Polish Government can hardly give. There's about 15.6% of unemployment in Poland that accounts every 6th Person is unemployed. It's a terrible rate. But it's the cost of Democracy. Poland is slowly moving out of inflation and depression from the Communists. It's a slow move but it will evantually happen.

Ukraine on the other hand is moving aswell. It's slowly growing independent from the Russian oil supply as the Ukrainians are finding more oil depots in the Black Sea region.

Well no one said the price of democracy was going to be easy. It takes gradual steps and it will take atleast 20 years for Poland to become economicly and socially stable!

Take Care!

[Stephen_Bailey]

Excellent !!!!!!! That's the right attitude.

meanwhile :

Why is Ukraine in a mess?

I went to Moscow w-a-y back in 1992 and was surprised to see many statues of Lenin.
What's surprising about that?
Because, they were all lying on their sides in a dark corner of Gorky Park; abandoned, forgotten and splattered with paint.

But in Kharkov, the largest statue of Lenin I've ever seen still stands in the main square. Not only is it un-molested, the bloody thing's actually revered.
People are leaving flowers at its base every day.

So, what do the "experts" out there make of that?

S.B.

[steve_vlasenko]

Hi Pierogies_4_Life,
An excellent reply. Thanks for your positive view.
The problem with el Barto is he hates Ukraine. He is the worst form of nationalist.

Stephen,
How many Lenin status are there in Kyiv or Lyiv? At the back of the Kyiv museum lies (or did lie) he Lenin from Independence square, to my knowledge in the centre of Kyiv there is only one Lenin at the end of bl Taras Shevchenko. Are expecting Ukrainians to deny their history?
Will knocking down status bring prosperity?
Sweeping Lenin under the carpet ain't going to cover up the past.
Also of course there are many old people whose life was better under communism and they'll cling on to what was best for them.
Take Care,
Vlas

[Stephen_Bailey]

I didn't see many statues of Hitler in Ukraine? he also started a 'revolutionary' movement that ravaged 'your' country.

No-one expects Ukrainian people to deny their history, but when that history (I mean Communism) was not very positive, they ought to face up to it - and move on.
'We' Germans did.

Who said anything about sweeping Lenin under the carpet? I didn't.
No. The people of Ukraine shouldn't sweep Lenin under the carpet. They should kick his arse! The totalitarian system he led held Ukraine back for over 70 years. Now, people have got the chance to go their own way. Trouble is, they don't seem to want to.
As the Polish chap said; Democracy ain't easy.

Please, don't rush to tell me I don't know what the **** I'm talking about.
I saw the 'tents' in Kiev and i saw the general population shuffling past them and looking as if they couldn't understand what was going on.

You know as well as I do how people in Britain would behave.
We'd have slung Kuchma into the Dnepr long ago; along with that blasted statue.

Regards.