Russia has another idea for Ukraine

[sjoyce]

I read in todays' issue of Kyiv Post that duma member Zatulin is suggesting Ukraine should become a federal state of Russia to save the country from breaking up. I guess that would be easier than outright invasion. Just do it piece by piece.

[Gotno Gizmo]

Since I arrived in Ukraine I've become aware of the nation's lack of cohesion. Worse than the situation prevailing between the Scottish and the English, but not as bad as the division between the Wallons (French Speakers) and Flemish (Dutch speakers) of Belgium. I understand the historical background that gave rise to Ukraine's current situation, but I feel that it is counterproductive to the potential development of the nation.
The situation reminds me of Northern Ireland, where the majority of people wish to retain their historic and religious ties. The (Protestants) who wish to be retained as part of the UK, and the not insignificant remainder of the population who wish to be joined with the Republic of Ireland (Catholic) in the southern part of the island. The advantages of having alliance to one or the other, is confused by the fact that both states are within the European Union, thus it is choice formed out of historic dogma, rather than a lifestyle practicality.
I believe that Ukraine must put aside its past and move on. However, unlike the Scots, English and Irish who have no current argument about language, Ukraine, like Belgium does unfortunately have a problem. Like Belgium the language issue in Ukraine also links to to emotions of alliance that obscure the nation's identity and future.
I am just an observer here and can offer no remedy, except that in all these cases common sense must prevail, for the sake of their children who may then prosper within a stable environment.

[Hannia]

practicality

It is the Ukrainian Oligarchs that empowered Yanukovych and his crew. They played a significant role in financing his election.

It doesn't seem reasonable that they would want to become junior leaguers in the Russian club, where oligarchic privilege is anointed sparingly and oligarchic power has been greatly diminished by Putin.
___________________________________

Zatalin is considered a clown in the international sphere, especially when he claims that Ukraine has no economic future w/o Russia.

As of 7/2010 Ukraine is the world's third largest exporter of grain and grain is rapidly moving up the world's commodity chain.

[Thorvald]

Originally Posted by sjoyce

I read in todays' issue of Kyiv Post that duma member Zatulin is suggesting Ukraine should become a federal state of Russia to save the country from breaking up. I guess that would be easier than outright invasion. Just do it piece by piece.

I hope Ukraine can stay independent country.

[bkrevel]

Originally Posted by Gotno Gizmo

Since I arrived in Ukraine I've become aware of the nation's lack of cohesion.

I am just an observer here and can offer no remedy, except that in all these cases common sense must prevail, for the sake of their children who may then prosper within a stable environment.

Respectfully, GG, I must make a couple of comments.

Firstly. you say you are 'just an observer'; though it sounds like you now live in Ukraine.

If you do not live there, delete my next comment. But as someone who has lived in a functional democracy, you should be doing more than just 'standing' on the sidelines; as the world did in 1932-33. I might suggest that you should be talking to your friends, neighbours , etc, and tell them of the beauty of a true democracy; and to not give up. but to register their vote. I am sure you, nor I do not have to tell them NOT to vote for POR, as Yanukonvict wants to take the country back to soviet times ; under his authoritarian rule; with his Donetsk mafia controlling the gov't.; eventually ending up under putin/moscow control.

As you write.....for the sake of their children....

I might further suggest that it is almost your duty, to help; just by talking and explaining is ok; so that the children you see playing in the school grounds or walking to school will not have to endure the repressive soviet times their parents did.

I read the Kyiv Post daily, and submit many comments . Example.....I point out that the biggest contributer of news stories is InterfaxUkraine. InterfaxUkraine is NOT a news agency ; like AP, Reuters, etc. This is a private Moscow /Putin controlled business who publishes whatever is given to them. As they state in their website......we are not responsible for the content of what we print......

I repeatedly slam the KP for printing InterfaxUkraine as 'news stories'. These stories are paid for by POR ( ya right--Yanuk pays for his own propoganda with taxpayers money) as propoganda/jpress releases for him.



For us, like you, who are lucky to live (or have lived) in a proper functioning democracy; it is very easy to critisize ...the nations lack of cohesion...Do not forget it took Great Britain centuries , and US two and a half centuries, and Canada a 143 years (to be exact) to enjoy our democracies.

Ukraine has been a democracy for........19 years!!...only.

And yes 'our' democracies have problems........but compared to Ukraine's democracy, ours is paradise.
Ukraine is listed as 143 out of 178 for most corrupt gov'ts. Do you honestly think,,,,,common sense must prevail......!! ( I know you are not that naive, GG) Canada is 6, and US is 10. Like comparing apples and rocks!!!!

I have submitted around a 100 or so comments to the Kyiv Post. I submit my name,,,as bkrevel, with my email address,,,,,and always sign off thusly........(or variations,,,,,,I will add some of them here)


PROTEST AGAINST YANUK AND HIS CORRUPTION, HIS RULE BY DECREE. DO NOT VOTE FOR THE POR IN THE OCT 31 ELECTIONS.

PROTEST AGAINST YANUK,,,HE CARES NOTHING FOR THE PEOPLE,,,,,ONLY WHAT HE AND HIS MAFIA OLIGARCHS CAN STEAL

PROTEST AGAINST YANUK AND HIS DONETSK MAFIA

PROTEST AGANIST YANUK, PEACEFULLY IN THE STREETS,,,DO NOT BE AFRAID.

PROTEST AGAINST YANUK, AS HE WISHES TO TAKE UKRAINE BACK TO SOVIET TIMES, AND EAST TO MOSCOW

PROTEST, IF NOT FOR YOURSELF......THEN FOR YOUR CHILDREN.

PROTEST AGAINST YANUK,,,,,BECAUSE IF YOU DON'T,,,,,THEN HE WILL WIN.


BLESS UKRAINE!!!



In conclusion, I urge you to do more than 'be an observer'

I live on a different continent, but on a dalily basis , I encourage Ukrainians to not give up. I write my relatives there and give them encouragement.


You are there, I hope you can, and will do more.

I am sure you will.

Ukraine and its people are too beautiful; to revert back to soviet style rule........again.

BLESS UKRAINE!!

[sjoyce]

Thank you so much bk for your enightnment I also watch your remarks on Kyiv Post with great interest.

[Gotno Gizmo]

In reply to bkrevel.

I spend as much time in Ukraine as I am currently allowed without applying for a visa. That means I'm currently here for 90 days in a period of 180. I make visual observations about what is going on around me. As I am unable to understand Ukrainian/ Russian, I cannot fully appreciate everything going on around me. I must tell you however, that those English speaking Ukrainians I do speak to are not interested in me talking about democracy. Mostly, they are disillusioned with all things political, referring to the criminality, homelessness and other negative aspects of their perception of "democracy", and have yearnings for aspects of the Soviet area. Surprisingly this is the position taken by some younger people who are not old enough to remember the Soviet era. Perhaps they've acquired this from parents or nostalgic grandparents. The consessus of opinion seems to be that they have enough concern in their lives about earning enough money to live better, so cannot worry about other things.

Without telling you of my past history, I have learned that one should never speak out strongly against the government of a country you are staying in. You may experience unfortunate occurences, or have problems should you wish to return (and this applies equally to countries like yours and mine). However, I must say that I have not personally seen anything going on in Ukraine that I believe gives rise for concern. I regularly see various political parties holding public rallies without any signs of hinderance. This is not true of of my experiences in other countries in the past.

The last Presidential election in Ukraine was judged to be free and fair by independant observers, so us outsiders must acknowledge that the decision was the choice of a majority of the electorate (as Obama in USA). If they become unhappy with their leadership, one assumes they will be able to vote for someone else next time.

Finally, I smiled at your comment about talking to the school children in their play ground? If I was to approach children like this in my country, I would probably be arrested, suspected of being a pervert and would be placed on the child protection register!