The Selfishness of the USA

[Gotno Gizmo]

I'm pleased that President Obama has managed to get his Health Care Bill passed by the Congress and that the poorer citizens of the USA will get more access to medical care in the future.
Why is it that the Republican Party are citing this measure as "Socialism", to be seen as an evil within their political regime.

All I can see is a huge sector of American society, who having worked hard to achieve a lifestyle that enables them to pay their high medical insurance premiums (as long as they don't become chronically ill), do not wish to part with another cent that may go towards subsidising another's health care.

Can they not understand the obscenity of living in one of the richest countries of the world, where it's acceptable for people to die because their state's neglect to care for its citizens. If there are Christians amongst you Republicans, then I must ask what has happened to your Christian values?

[stepanstas]

First I ask if you deny that this is socialism. I don't know if by quoting it, you are mocking Republicans or if you are admitting it is. In either case:

Originally Posted by Gotno Gizmo

All I can see is a huge sector of American society, who having worked hard to achieve a lifestyle that enables them to pay their high medical insurance premiums ..., [who] do not wish to part with another cent that may go towards subsidising another's health care.

From each according to his ability, to each according to his need.
- Karl Marx, one of the founders of Marxism. Marxism - part of communism. Communism - part of socialism.

See how it all rolls up?

Now. You admit that the USA is one of the richest countries in the world. Can it not be argued that it got that way by being a leader of capitalism? By allowing a person to live his or her own life without being dependent on anyone else (and vice versa)?

What part of Christianity states that you must pay for someone else who is lazy enough to do it themselves? Keep in mind, we are talking top of the house here. This is all related to people on "aid". People who feel they are entitled to be paid for sitting at home. The last hurdle of that is the high cost of medical care. So, how about a job? Doesn't pay enough? How about a loan? Won't work? How about 2 jobs? Still nope? How about cutting back on expenses? Nah, I'll just have my "Christian" neighbor cover it, because he can.

You talk about people dieing. Thats just something to say to make an arguement. Yes, people die. Yes, they could have gotten treatment. Why is that my problem? (Remember what I said earlier about living my life ....) Why don't you Democrats (socialists) create an opt-in option for covering other people? So then you could pay extra taxes to save a few lives? Why don't you create a website where people who need help, go online and ask for it? Then you could be a lifelong subscriber.

Let me ask you something. When is the last time you have gone to a hospital and went around to the patients and asked if they needed help covering their bill? Try it today. Set aside $100 per week for aiding others. Let me know how it worked out.

Finally, there are multiple topics on this, so i envision a lot of things to be repeated.

[AkMike]

Health care is available for everyone even the down and out. No one is refused from a hospital emergency room. Obummer has shoved a big fat one down the throats of the American people. i
He's a socialist and is pushing that agenda anlong with "spreading the wealth' to the rest of the world and taking it away from the USA.

[Zbyszek]

Originally Posted by Gotno Gizmo

I'm pleased that President Obama has managed to get his Health Care Bill passed by the Congress and that the poorer citizens of the USA will get more access to medical care in the future.
Why is it that the Republican Party are citing this measure as "Socialism", to be seen as an evil within their political regime.

All I can see is a huge sector of American society, who having worked hard to achieve a lifestyle that enables them to pay their high medical insurance premiums (as long as they don't become chronically ill), do not wish to part with another cent that may go towards subsidising another's health care.

Can they not understand the obscenity of living in one of the richest countries of the world, where it's acceptable for people to die because their state's neglect to care for its citizens. If there are Christians amongst you Republicans, then I must ask what has happened to your Christian values?

I support the opinion given above. Gizmo is right and for me, it is obvious that Health Care Bill was needed and expected and even if Obama would not have succeded, it would be enacted by another future USA president. I do not know exactly how the new law will be implemented but freedom which gives the poor right to die sounds like abuse and is disgusting. I am sure that the new law will turn out to be advantageous even for these who oppose it at the moment. World of today often overestimates freedom but fails to give priority to life which is even more precious than freedom. Yes, we were born not only to have and to use our rights - we do have moral obligations to help others and the government has right to impose such help sometimes on us when it is needed badly.
I would like to congratulate the USA president and to congratulate the Americans. Far-sighted initative was undertaken and it will yield blessed fruit.

Gizmo, welcome to this forum! Your recent answer concerning "not so absolutely bad communism" has potential for deep thoughts and I regret I do not have enough time to discuss it in depth. I was born in a once communist country which was quite a maverick in the communist pack! The people of my country, fighting desperately but also negotating, earned some space for personal freedom in the authoritarian system making it a little better. Now, we enjoy fruits of moderation and peaceful transformation of political reality. We have also recognized some traps and social dangers of unbridled freedom. I also have to admit that, in the distant pass, our rulers hurt Rusyns/Ukrainians, reserving freedom only for upper classes while opressing the poor without mercy. It culminated in appalling waves of disrupting rebellions and rivers of innocent blood on both sides.

[stepanstas]

Originally Posted by Zbyszek

I support the opinion given above. Gizmo is right and for me, it is obvious that Health Care Bill was needed and expected and even if Obama would not have succeded, it would be enacted by another future USA president. I do not know exactly how the new law will be implemented but freedom which gives the poor right to die sounds like abuse and is disgusting. I am sure that the new law will turn out to be advantageous even for these who oppose it at the moment. World of today often overestimates freedom but fails to give priority to life which is even more precious than freedom. Yes, we were born not only to have and to use our rights - we do have moral obligations to help others and the government has right to impose such help sometimes on us when it is needed badly.
I would like to congratulate the USA president and to congratulate the Americans. Far-sighted initative was undertaken and it will yield blessed fruit.

Everyone has a right to die. Everyone has a right to healthcare. This bill has nothing to do with that. What this bill does do is put a burden on the tax payers. Look at the numbers, you put in more than you get back. That makes no sence.

Moral obligations to help others are fine. Nobody is preventing anyone from paying anyone's bill (as stated in my earlier post). That has nothing to do with having one group pay for another.

Whatever happened to being "equal"? Does this not create a barrier between those who pay for medical care and those who receive it? And that barrier, will not be distructed, if it is signed into law.

There are some steps ahead of us. Some states will revolt. Virginia will sue the the U.S. (and rightfully so). Unfortunately my Democratic state will likely do no such thing. It would be interesting if this can get overturned before implementation. Americans will clearly vote Republican next election. If it would be legal to overturn it, that will not be a problem.

So, victory? Far from it. Yes, this did make history, but not one that will be a good "change" for the USA.

[stepanstas]

Moral question for all of you.

Should giving blood be mandated by law?

[AkMike]

This another useless waste of my money! Most won't bother getting any insurance as demanded by this law and they'll get free healthcare anyway. The illegals get treated at the emergency rooms with out paying. Who'll gfoot the bill? The honest ones will continue to pay....California is broke and nearing bankrupcybecause of ultra liberal $pending.. The USA is going to follow soon.

Gotno Gizmo, You mentioned in a different thread that you can't afford to get your teeth worked on in Blighty.. Ukraine is cheaper.. How is that different than what is going to happen in the USA? No one is going to force a Dr. from seeing someone who doesn't pay. Hell most do not accept the medicare payments because they won't pay the going rate.