Was communism so bad?

[Outback]

Haha I know this topic might stir some people up, but I'm curious to see the responses. Now myself, I'm a 34 yr old Southerner in America and I grew up right in the midst of the "Red Scare". I remember always hearing the fearful rhetoric about how the Soviet Union or Russia was going to nuke us all back to the stone age. I remember feeling bad hearing about everyone having to stand in line for hours for bread and not having anything. On TV and in the media, communism was evil and turned their citizens into zombies and carbon copy clones. Religion was viciously oppressed and churches were reduced to rubble. The government controlled what everyone did and said and thought.

However, my wife tells a much different story as does her mother who was affiliated with the communist party. Now granted my wife who was born in 1983 didn't really get a good taste of communism, which is why I am interested in other more experienced points of views.

They tell me how the job market was in Ukraine, where after you graduate school you are assigned a job in one of many factories. In such a way you're sure to have a job. If you don't like it, you can pick another. This seems a little too easy. Everyone had plenty of money but there just wasn't enough goods available because those with more money exploited the system and purchased more than they needed. Her mom tells me this was the major flaw, the greediness of people.

They tell me health care was much better back then. You get sick, you get treated, and you pay nothing. But now if you get sick, you get minimum treatment and you must bribe to get well taken care of.

As for the KGB and their murderous ways, this only happened in major aspects of politics. A simple town like Khotyn in the Chernivtsi region was pretty much peaceful and left alone. Could it be that communism was only the bane of the major cities and spheres of influence? Could it be that it was actually more beneficial for those in the smaller communities that preferred a simpler life?

I once read that communism was never meant for an underindustrialized collection of countries like those in the Soviet Union. No offense intended. It was meant for more progressive countries like Germany and Great Britain. Is this why China's version of communism is so successful, or is it because China has diluted the essence of communism so much with capitalism that they've created something new with an old name?

Please enlighten me, I look forward to all interpretations, especially from the older generation. We in the US have been misinformed by our government on so many things it's nice to hear some real truth nowadays.

[Ukrcossack]

Well, first of all you wouldn't be able to post this question online if you lived under communism. People in the Soviet Union were not interested in improving things at work, in production, because innovations cost you many troubles and as a rule were not implemented as it was based on quantity, not quality. Everyone looked the same: the same paint that was used on planes and benches went to paint shirts and pants. Generally, you had just 3 colors of paint all your life: from your bib to your coffin. You should have been watching your mouth all the time. Dissidents, people of progressive thought and culture were treated as traitors, most imprisoned, many never came home. Russian was imposed in most spheres of life and national Ukrainian publications and cinematography were sieved through unbelievable beaurocratic machine that sucked every juice out of many talented people. You had no much choice. In 1989 we had a TV, of which I as a teenager had difficulty turning knob with both hands!!!. It might give you an idea of progress communism endorsed us with while rockets were built and sent to the space. The stores were empty and party members were rich fat pigs living like kings. It didn't matter how many years you studied and what you know, your salary would be the same as of a person who did nothing all his life. There was more stability workwise, I must agree with that, but taking into consideration of how the work was done and of its low quality compared to the international standards, one might think how long it could have lasted. My family waited for a TELEPHONE from 1975 till 1989 - JUST 14 years!!! Medical service was free, nurses and doctors were humane creatures, but the equipment was from the stone age. You can imagine just from the time of getting a telephone how long it took an ambulance to get to your home. You ran to a single neighbor in a 9-storey building at 3 am to call the hospital about emergency. Response was as slow as the whole system. Sometimes you waited an hour, two and in case of villages - they usually didn't come at all and only drunk veterinary, if able to wake up, brought you back to live by its ethanol enriched breath. On the positive side, I would count morals, people were more friendly because everyone had a job and knew it will be there tomorrow. Less stressful life in an average citizen's life who wanted to go to work, come back and not even think about of what is going on around.

[Lvivske]

Short answer: yes

Long answer: It was really really crappy.

[Albatross]

Outback, i think it's useful to differentiate between communism under Stalin and thereafter. Under Stalin, repression was severe but after his death, repression decreased. Sure the system could be pretty harsh for those who resisted, but for many people life was okay. You'll find a lot of old folks in Ukraine today who are dependent on a low fixed income, and they're worse off now. These people are often nostalgic for the days of communism, and i can't blame them.

In my opinion China is not a communist country anymore. It's even more capitalist than the USA, it's just not democratic.

[Gotno Gizmo]

As an older Englishman who has spent a small part of his life behind the "Iron Curtain" within the Soviet Union's sphere of influence of Europe, I have had the opportunity to witness the negative aspects of both the communist and capitalists regimes.

I heard the street mounted loudspeakers broadcasting communist proganda to the passing pedestrians of Czechoslovakia. I saw the Mickey Mouse cartoon like characters singing praise to the President and his party on a children's TV programme in Romania. I was aware of the food shortages and persecution of dissenters. I witnessed the kilometres of barbed wire fencing, watch towers and trip wires that seperated the poverty of "socialism" from the freer and more affluent capitalist west.

Meanwhile in the west, at the same time period, I was witnessing rising crime and drug addition, a diminishing of personal discipline, increasing homelessness, and the virtual persecution of the British coalminers by the "Iron Lady" Margaret Thatcher. But I was happy that I could pass through the barriers of the "Iron Cutain" and return to the relative comfort of life in the west at the end of every business trip.

I have come to learn that politics is the instigator of much evil on this planet. Politicians are the creator of unfulfilled promises to its peoples and the second largest divider (after language) of the world's peoples from coming together in unity.

I believe that communism was a counterbalance to capitalism, that acted to restrain excessive exploitative behaviour in the past, for fear of promoting socialism within its own domain. However, in the post Soviet period, capitalism is devloping an "unacceptable face" in which the gap between the rich and the poor is widening at an alarming rate. The power of commercial / financial influence of a few hundred global business billionaires over the world's leading nations politicians is too great and must be kerbed.

The situation where self and party serving career politicians, who hold office for many years, in their cosy environments, remote from the people they are supposed to represent must end. I believe the way forward is to have political office candidates nominated by the people who may serve for a maximum of five years only. This will ensure that fresh from the "real world" they will represent their people better with less alleigance to the global elites, their own political party dogma, and hopefully their own aquired indulgencies.

[Lvivske]

there's also a line between communism itself and communism under the kremlin's vicegrip

communism in Czechoslovakia was doing well, and the people supported it. the CP wanted reforms and then you have the red army invade the country so that the status quo stays.

id say communism, by the sheer nature of its over bureaucracy and control of every day life, is bad, but socialism, once tweaked to perfection, is a good thing

[Outback]

Well i guess since communism had like what 7 different leaders over it's course, and they all added their own unique spin, i'm interested in whichever version you personally saw. I realize that most of the people on this forum might be young, or maybe just have relatives from Ukraine. Ask your parents, or their parents if they're still alive. While i initially thought this would be best directed at communism in Ukraine, i suppose other areas would also be interesting. Thanks again for the replies!