The new bloody war is ripening at back seat of Europe!

[peter3030]

Originally Posted by bm-21Lemko

I wonder what countries georgia will buy from to rebuild its military. They probably will buy more tanks in weaponry from Ukraine again, since ukraine has a big inventory of russian made weapons. Then they will probably buy some western weapons too.

Well Israel for one since they have been doing a lot for Georgia.
Easy to see why given their vested interests in the Oil supplies.Russia should look at itself when it breaches international agreements by shipping its planes to Africa through Belarus.....the same planes that are used against those trying to uphold freedoms and democracy.

Putin has been busy building up relations closer to home-he does not need Europe....The deals with India Saudi Arabia and Iran speak for themself.

If he means what he says about raising standards for his people to equal the West..then its not something that most think will come.
In a recent survey carried out amongst the middle classes in Moscow of 25-35 year olds almost 80% said they had no confidence in the government to deliver these new promised standards-almost all said they would consider alternative work/lives in Europe given the chance.

Putin is concerned only with his masterplans that has seen the defence budget rise by 800% since 2002.

Investment in infastructure is well behind or totally inefficient and theres a failing to invest in developing a common argicultural programme that could see food prices much less than they are paying to import at the moment.

Those with expertise in these fields cannot be attracted for fear of having their businesses taken away when the Kremlin feels they want a bigger share.

rant over

[MichaelB_PL]

For you it was OK to call Ukrainian President Yushchenko "pro-fascist" without any backgrounds right in Ukrainian society

Yuschenko's positive stance toward fascist organisations of OUN/UPA-B effectively means he can be called pro-fascist.

Don't forget, British press calls him "chauvinist ruler" quite openly and nobody is prosecuted for this in UK, the example of true democracy.

I don't mind if somebody calls him "chauvinist" or "moron" once or twice, what do mind is continuous stupidity presented by some posters on this board.

Moreover, I openly state I consider you as Polish chauvinist and btw your position about Crimea belonging was completely pro-Russian, let me remind you:

Your constant support of Moscow position on separatism issues makes me doubt how much you are sincere about Georgian fight with separatism. Btw, I remember earlier you stated Abkhazia and Ossetia should be given back to Russia.

1) Abkhazia and Ossetia are de facto hostages of Russia's "divide and conquer" policy - from one side, Russia protects them, but from the other, it draws them into conflict which they propably do not desire.

2) I do support Abkhazia's and Ossetia's freedom, but it does't mean I support Russia's imperialism and war-mongering, bombing of Georgian cities and deliberate aggravation of Georgian-Abkhazian and Georgian-Ossetian relations.

[Max_the_Highlander]

Buddy when you are in Rome do as Romans do.

This is Ukraine-related board which defends Ukrainian interests and liberties. If people come here they have to respect the Ukraine and Ukrainians and majority does. It does not require anyone to care or respect the Polish interests, it’s off topic.

For example, why do you suppose I have to "love" or "respect" your country? I'm also not supposed to love and care the Equador. It's just the same, it's stupid requirement.

I express my opinion on your country openly and since even Brits find it "nationalistic regime", it's strange to expect another reaction. Whatever you write about Ukraine your angle is chauvinistic.

[bm-21Lemko]

Originally Posted by peter3030

Well Israel for one since they have been doing a lot for Georgia.
Easy to see why given their vested interests in the Oil supplies.Russia should look at itself when it breaches international agreements by shipping its planes to Africa through Belarus.....the same planes that are used against those trying to uphold freedoms and democracy.

Putin has been busy building up relations closer to home-he does not need Europe....The deals with India Saudi Arabia and Iran speak for themself.

If he means what he says about raising standards for his people to equal the West..then its not something that most think will come.
In a recent survey carried out amongst the middle classes in Moscow of 25-35 year olds almost 80% said they had no confidence in the government to deliver these new promised standards-almost all said they would consider alternative work/lives in Europe given the chance.

Putin is concerned only with his masterplans that has seen the defence budget rise by 800% since 2002.

Investment in infastructure is well behind or totally inefficient and theres a failing to invest in developing a common argicultural programme that could see food prices much less than they are paying to import at the moment.

Those with expertise in these fields cannot be attracted for fear of having their businesses taken away when the Kremlin feels they want a bigger share.

rant over

yes i know i have said that Georgia buys military from Isreal, Ukraine, and the U.S. But really Georgia just buys modification packages to upgrade what they buy from Ukraine, they have bought some tar-21 assualt rifles from Isreal too.

Well, saudi Arabia is just trying to diversify its military. It only bought what 21 mi-17s.

I don't think that statistic is right, i believe what you say that they conducted the survey, but many russians believe the united russian party is helping them, including the middle class.


more in the conflict

Russia destroyed 6 more georgian naval vessels according to al Jazeera

And they have been looting and destroying buildings in gori including bases from russian forces and seperatist forces.

I don't think this conflict is over.

[bm-21Lemko]

To the west, Russian-backed Abkhazian separatists pushed Georgian troops out of Abkhazia and even moved into Georgian territory itself, defiantly planting a flag over the Inguri River and laughing that retreating Georgians had received ``American training in running away.''

World news Feed Article | World news | guardian.co.uk

[bm-21Lemko]

Well, I don't think Ukraine is on Russia's good side right now, since Ukraine supplys the majority of the weapons to the Georgians. So, as far as relations go, you are the one is supply weapons so they can kill their people. Well, you could make the argument that you don't know what they would do with them.

Well, here is the link for imports to georgia for 2007
http://disarmament.un.org/UN_REGISTER.nsf

[peter3030]

Its strange how lots are warning about Ukraine being on Moscows hit list-I saw reports that there are some Ukranians who support Russia and others Georgia,but surely we are talking of 2 completely different scenarios in terms of the conspiracy theories doing the rounds ?
I also see that Putins comments in April in which he spoke of Ukraine being "Dissmembered" are being ressurected by some who reported on them at the time.
The media appear to be having a field day with all sorts of speculations-and yet no one can say with any substance what will evolve from this.Maybe its THAT uncertainty that has so many people worried around the world.
This of course includes the many who did not even know where Georgia was on the map until the last few days !