Ukraine & NATO

[Max_the_Highlander]

Originally Posted by stepanstas

Russia grows and seeks its own interests. Why dont we do the same? They are trying to influence our decision and I, for one, will not take that.

This is where I can agree. Russia's damage comes mostly from having it always its own way. Yes, they care much about own interests and last time not many Russian interests match with ours.

The Crimea is good example. Last year the statements of some Russian politicians about "Crimea is Russia" got louder. For example, Yury Luzhkov, the Moskow major, claims "Crimea wants home, to Russia". Of course, it troubles us, so some such politicians who doubt modern Ukrainian integrity are prohibited to visit the Ukraine. These are mentioned Luzhkov and also Zhirinivsky, Zatulin and others.

This is how we can prevent sharing such malevolent ideas in Ukraine but we can't prevent the proclaiming of such ideas in Russia.

The Russian navy has its bases in Crimea, till 2017 and they desperately want to continue the agreement. There are polar opinions about. It brings good money to Ukraine and it is good lever in solving the gas prices problems. Everytime Russia rises prices for gas, Ukraine rises prices for navy residence so it makes process slow.

After joining the NATO the Russian navy will be likely removed but in the same time we will loose good lever on Russia which is being used now.

[bm-21Lemko]

True, russian navy will probably leave. Though it might stay due to the

fact of the crimea's autonomy status.

[stepanstas]

Well for that I would like to remind you why i think Bush's trip was important.

He said that Ukraine needs to expand their resource buckets and rely on more that one area. He never said russia, but its clear what he ment.

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The navy is bringing in money, but in the long run it makes it worse for us. I think they lost their privilage. Once the agreement is up, its over.

[Max_the_Highlander]

With NATO joining it will leave for sure. Crimea however is just territorial autonomy and it doesn't make such decisions. It's not their competence which is tightly written in constitution. The global decisions about foreign navy or bases are made in Kyiv only.

Yes, Bush is absolutelly right. The World is very big and wide. There are a lot of resources around if to look with open eyes.

[bm-21Lemko]

I understand, I'm just saying that they might not want to lose one of their

closest bases to get to the mediterranean. What i'm saying is it is

a strategic position. But, yes they will leave once Ukraine is part of Nato.

One problem with getting resources elsewhere is it could be more expensive.

What if Ukraine could get natural gas from Afghanistan, would it be cheaper than getting it from Russia?

They are building a gas pipeline from pakistan to afghanistan to iran.

[stepanstas]

Well Ukraine joining NATO does not mean that russia will leave Crimea. In what sence do you guys mean it, that russia will not want anything to do with us anymore or that it will be forced out?

Didn't Yuschenko meet and agreed with someone to get gas from them. I think it was a midle eastern country but not one as well known as Afganistan.

I believe this happened durring the gas shutoff.

[bm-21Lemko]

Well Russia views Nato as a threat, so they won't want to stay with Ukraine if it allies itself with NATO

Well you probably already know this, Russia created Warsaw pact to counter Nato back during the cold war and still views Nato as a threat

Maybe Iran, I believe they have a big stock of gas like afghanistan.

check this article out maybe its one of these
http://www.eia.doe.gov/cabs/Caspian/NaturalGas.html

though Russia and Iran are really good trading partners