Ukraine & NATO

[Albatross]

Originally Posted by stepanstas

I do not feel that most people are against it. One one or two people here have been against NATO.

Uhh Stepanstas let's count: in this thread Stirlitz, JamesL, Kathy (albeit indicrectly) and myself spoke out against a future Nato membership. So that's a bit more then one or two members

Originally Posted by stepanstas

I like what Yuschenko and Tymoshenko said. That we should not be influenced by a country that is not even part of the aliance (russia). And that we are an independent nation and when I comes to others making decisions, we do not interfer with them and nobody should do that to us.

Okay i agree, but that's just an argument that Ukraine should be independent in making its decisions, whatever the outcome.

[stepanstas]

Albatross,

When I was doing my count I was counting people with an actual argument that they could back up.

All others I have seen no more arguments from them.

I am all for freedom of speach and I will let those 2 people speak.

And about the second point. I think it is crutial what the two of them said since many peope are just against it because of russia.

[peteb]

i am British and i would like to see ukraine in NATO and the EU,

[stepanstas]

peteb,

Thank you for your support. We appreciate it.

[Albatross]

Originally Posted by stepanstas

Albatross,

When I was doing my count I was counting people with an actual argument that they could back up.

All others I have seen no more arguments from them.

I am all for freedom of speach and I will let those 2 people speak.

And about the second point. I think it is crutial what the two of them said since many peope are just against it because of russia.

Interesting way to count Stepan. You know, using your approach, there are also just 1 or 2 members in favor. It eliminates the need for a poll in the future.

[Max_the_Highlander]

NATO opposition in essence consists of people who support the out-bloc status (Austria, Switzerland etc are examples) and people who care interests of Russia in Ukraine.

Folks as Stirlitz and Nikolai obviously care about Russian interests in Ukraine while some Western liberals mind the advantages of position "my house is on the very brink".

Neutrality is safe position but as Graham Greene wrote, sometimes a man needs to make a choice and pick a side.

[stepanstas]

Albatross, you misunderstood me. All the other members had nothing else to say. I assumed that they agreed with me.

Max, I honestly believe that neutrality is not a safe position for Ukraine in this case. It is a clear fact that russia thinks every single day about how to take over Ukraine or do something damaging.

russia is not neutral about this and this is why we shouldent be either. Joining NATO does not take sides! We are simple getting protection.

Its like installing an alarm system in your house. Would you rather have one or live without one?