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Minimum Monthly needs for a Girl

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  #36 (permalink)  
Old 10th August 2003, 11:11
Djinnphiz Djinnphiz is offline
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Wink General comment on the above...

I was in Lviv five weeks ago and the costs there in general are 25% > 30% less than Kyiv...

As a GENERAL RULE: NEVER SEND MONEY for a "correspondent" to purchase her ticket herself... Find out which airlines are available, book the ticket in your home country and send a PTA (Passenger Travel/Ticket Advice) along with a photocopy of the Visa (if for Arabian Gulf countries such as UAE etc) and have her pick up the ticket at the airport prior to flying... It cannot be encashed and is non-negotiable if SPECIFIED at the time of booking...

In three weeks of travelling in Ukraine - Lviv, Odessa, Crimea, Kyiv - I spent a TOTAL of US$1,050 - including staying in hotels and rented apartments - AND paying US$150 fee for a 25 year-old translator who accompanied me all the time... So in Lviv, US$400 will allow your - scamming - friend to "live the life of Riley!!"...

As far as providing a financial guarantee - yes, for the average Ukrainian travelling abroad without an invitation or a guarantor, she will be required to show a Bank Account with x amount of funds, return tickets, certified accountant pay-slips blah blah blah... Same for Moldova, Russia, Siberia etc. Hungary and Poland... VERY FEW Visas are given in the Ukraine for people wishing to travel to the USA... and these ARE expensive - especially when acquired "through friends" with big f**k-me black Mercedes 4WD motors covered in chrome and with darkened windows Ukraine in this respect is not too different from Russia - "contacts - contacts - contacts"...

Ergo Caveat Emptor - let the "buyer beware"... Ukrainian ladies are absolutely lovely - often well-educated, intelligent and amongst the warmest, most hospitable and feminine examples of womanhood that exist - AND they are equally quite often very keen to leave their actual environment for what they perceive as a "better life potential" in a Western country.
Claude <majordomo@usa.com>
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  #37 (permalink)  
Old 10th August 2003, 11:29
Djinnphiz Djinnphiz is offline
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Re VG's comments...

VG makes a good point... US$100 per month IS the supposedly "average" salary in Ukraine... What shop assistants get and the like...
..And yet it is patently obvious - looking at the middle-market cars (most of which are relatively new) that there is a whole segment of the community that HAS to be living on MUCH more than US$100 per month...Somehow
I would tend to agree with VG that - from my observation - in Kviv alone, it would depend whether you were living on the right or left banks of the city as to whether US$100 was "enough" or not... Same for Lviv but with slightly different geographical criteria...
There is a VAST difference between the segment of society in Ukraine that I have observed which lives at US$100-per-month "subsistence" - and those who CAN run a car, send their kids to private classes, pay private clinics for their health, have music lessons, enjoy a meal in a trendy place, buy "branded clothes", own a Video (let alone a DVD!) or even go to a concert... As an example I attended the Caesarie Evora concert early June in Kyiv and the tickets ranged from US$10 > US$70... "Someone" has to be paying the top rate because the house was packed!!
Again, train fares might seem "cheap" to us Westerners... But to go down to Yalta from Kyiv in a first class Sleeper for the 19 hour trip cost US$80 one way...
It is - as VG suggests - all a matter of perspective... and expectations.
Putting it in another light: personally I would not WISH to be a Ukrainian living on US$100 per month... It WOULD be hard...
By the way I would love to hear from anyone related to Ukraine: its a beautiful, facsinating country full of opportunities and real human values... I sincerely enjoyed it... By the same token I can ABSOLUTELY NOT recommend ANYONE fly Air Ukraine: unless they wish to be insulted by their lackadaiscal and uncaring staff, pay EVERY gram of ALL excess baggage (hold and hand), have a desire to be ulteriorily manipulated by a chiroprator due to the lousy seats, made sick by the indifferent communist-styled trough of food and chimotherapy-treated for lung cancer subsequent to being cigarette-poisoned in flight... On a scale of 1-10 : - 20!!!.
Claude <majordom@usa.com>
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  #38 (permalink)  
Old 10th August 2003, 12:02
Djinnphiz Djinnphiz is offline
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Posts: 8
Re Sashabaha's comments on "no jobs" after graduation

"I am working on convincing her to go back finish university, but she keeps telling me that there are no jobs when she graduates worth the effort. Very sad situation. It is even worse when these girls travel abroad and see the nice shops, resturants, hotels, etc."

This is a very interesting point... Whether it is entirely exact is also discussable...
However, my own experience of Ukrainians is that whilst their education system is pretty broadband - similar to the French Baccalaureat in scope - and the curricula are fairly extensive (at least on paper) the QUALITY of the teaching might well leave something to be desired...
This is a synonimous situation as existed only 30 years ago in India when a Subcontinental Indian might proudly announce "VJ Marur - Mumbai University, Graduate of '72"... Implying that it was one of the ONLY universtities where educational levels might be expected and accepted as having any form of "western" equivalence...
Now... to a specific case... The Translator that I hired (see above two postings) was a graduate of the Kviv Institute of Diplomatic and Political Affairs... Her curriculum was VERY intensive: I know - I saw some of her projects... And the fees her parents parted with were not exactly "minimal"... (Her Dad drives one of those Mercedes 4WD with chrome and tinted windows ) It is in effect an "elite institute" where the old guard send their prodjeny The purpose of her studies was that when she had graduated she could in effect get a job within the Diplomatic Services of her country... However - and here's the clinch - the initial salary that she would be paid was no more than US$300 per month - regardless of whether she was in Tokyo, London or Paris... THAT is not a logical wage for the work she did...nor for the 4 years she spent studying.
Moving to a more delicate expression of job "fulfillment" - if you will pardon the pun...
I currently live a lot in a country where Central European women abound... They come here in their early to mid-twenties and often are the survivors of a divorce whilst also having had a child - many times before they were 20... They come to this country - and elsewhere - to work in the only way they know how which is to be in the "sex trade"... Here they will earn anything up to US$1500 per month and be able to send home US$700 or so...AFTER their highly placed and cynically rapacious Muslim "local sponsors" have had their "tax" - in the form of Visa Fees and supplied rental accommodation... Often poorly educated, from the rural villages abd farms or the meaner areas in the big cities, they lead sad and unenviable lives... And yet their rationale is better to do this than live in their home countries at what would be a subsistence level...
It IS a fact that Western coutries have all sorts of social safety nets... These countries have none...
In Kyiv I met a veteran of Afghanistan... He had one leg. It had been amputated 12 months ago because it was gangrenous as a result of his badly healed war wound... He was about to have the other cut-off for the same reason: and couldn't afford it. He will die - of gangrene poisoning...Soon. Probably when the real cold starts in December. Because he has no money, no Social Sceurity, no family and no friends to help him with the US$3000 needed for the clinic... THIS is also some of the problems that these people face... Apart from the fact that when the communist era ceased, their whole financial system of savings became worthless... literally overnight.
My point is that these people have satellite TV: they SEE how we live in the West and they WANT it - at any cost almost - for themselves as well... This social tension between what is real and what is TV-fantasy is the root cause of enormous - but surpressed - frustration and social dissatisfaction within the different regimes... WHo, incidentally, are striggling to bring themselves up to a resonable level of international parity.
We need - when visiting these countries and dealing witheir inhabitants - to exercise COMPASSION and understanding whilst seeing the world from their paradigm... These are great people: mostly noble, poetic, heartworthy, spiritual, moral, down to earth, pragmatic, inventive and unfailingly generous...
I admire and respect them enormously.
(Note: these ARE only "my" opinions based on my own limited observations and knowledge... I don't claim to be either "right" or "wrong"... This IS just the way it has been for me )
Claude <majordomo@usa.com>
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  #39 (permalink)  
Old 18th August 2003, 18:39
Freedom1 Freedom1 is offline
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Join Date: May 2003
Posts: 248
" Mr. Boodles", interesting observations you share. thnx!
Slava Ukrainu * Heroyam Slava
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