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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12th June 2003, 07:51
Irene1972 Irene1972 is offline
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Irene1972
Fenics,
I am indeed a helpful person because I used to work in a dating business and saw many scams going on and unwillingly was involved into some of them. After I have made my decision to leave everybody was upset and angry with me and
didn't understand the reasons of my departure. I left without being paid my last salary but it was not my biggest pain. My heart ached for those sincere gentlemen who spend huge money to come here and pay for accommodation and going out as well as presents to the girls who might not even been interested in them and only agreed to meet them to have a chance to go out to expensive restaurants for free as well as receive presents from their suitors. Since then I feel compelled to help people on that side of the globe and it's absolutely free, I don't expect any return.

So, to tell the truth I was hurt by response of TDog both: about Vera and about the flat. I'm the most diligent landlady myself willing to come and clean and cook breakfast for a client without any additional cost which is usually not done for as low cost as $30 per day (by the way, I live in Odessa) as for the landlords I know I used their services not once and see the same diligence and honesty in relationship. As for agencies I know diffeent ones. I know one that had a client who booked a flat and when he came they rented it to someone else and gave him a flat on Tairova outskirts for just a bit lower price. We're all people would be an agency or an individual. As for Vera I don't want to talk about much more. The girl receives her 160 grivnas per month and lives only due to the help of her parents and all these talks about "just 5 grivnas" with our low speed Internet when one page uploads God knows how long and in TDog's case because of the huge files he sent her mailbox opened almost for half an hour... And then this poor little girl decided to delete all but one letter to save the space and by mistake clicked on all and was blamed in lack of interest and then in changing her mind "so quickly". Sounds at least strange.
But, Fenicks, I do appreciate your understanding and sober reasoning. You're right we have many criminals here. In government, policae, justice, dating agencies, girls-brides who may well be married as the director of one agency told me. So, one should be careful and I can understand TDog wh is aware of the situation
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12th June 2003, 17:14
TDog TDog is offline
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Question

As you know, it was my impression that Vera was not interested in me because she did not return my letter. After reading the advice you provided to Germany35 and your question regarding my visa status, I posted a response that seems to have exerted and unintended effect.

Since I did not follow the same advice you provided to Germany 35 , it seemed necessary that I explain the rationale behind my decision to contact your friend via the e-mail route; nothing more and nothing less.

You responded with the comment:

Quote:
She did mentioned that a handsome doctor wrote her a letter. But when I asked her why she didn't reply she answered that she wanted a man right now and you seemed to be so far away

Was it so unreasonable to conclude that she wasnt interested in meeting me by this point? You contacted her and then remarked that:

Quote:
I just called Vera and yes, she's interested in you but somehow she deleted your letters by mistake
And then you posted Veras letter, which contained remarks which I think any gentleman would be pleased to hear! Im not suspicious of Vera at all- her mistake (deleting my letter) was one that anybody could make. I did not send her a huge file! I sent 3 photos in JPG format totaling 133k. Don't mail.ru accounts easily exceed this size?

Anyways, was it also unreasonable to conclude that she changed her mind about meeting me?

I was not suspicious by her change in decision. I thought that maybe you said something to encourage her interest in me during your conversation with her. I was not certain, so I asked. After all, didn't we get along with each other well prior to all of this Irene?

Irene, you mention that you are experienced in providing guide/apartment services to tourists in Odessa. Apparently you are also aware of the danger and scams the matchmaking business involves. When a potential client expresses concerns for their safety, it seems only fair to expect that you to address these concerns with tact and professionalism.

I do not consider this statement (among some others) to be very professional:

Quote:
Of course I can arrange your transfer to Odessa from Borispol and I used to do it in the past but why should I if I don't even know you? I could do it for Vera but not for a stanger.
How would you like it if I told you to go to hell because you needed a security deposit prior to renting your flat, or a scanned copy of my passport?

All I really wanted to know was if I could reach Kiev within a specific time frame via train route from Odessa. After learning that Vera was not interested in me, I finalized most of my travel arrangements. Now that she (according to my thinking) changed her mind about meeting me, I was trying to find a last minute solution that best suits our interests.

Irene, do we have to part as strangers because we cannot conduct business with one another? I may have rejected what I consider to be a business proposal, but I would not reject an offer for sincere friendship, Im truly sorry that I hurt you. Hopefully you will be better prepared for future such incidents involving other westerners.

Warmest regards to you,

Terrance

(Now I know why you hate matchmaking stuff.)
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12th June 2003, 20:02
fenicks fenicks is offline
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fenicks
hi Irene,

I did not wanted to upset any body but you are right with the criminals. And yes Terence should be carefull and especially when he wants to travel by train (alone).

As for me since my Fiancee (met her true her sister, whom invited me to visit the Ukriane on a student meeting) has a slow internet connection at home only 33.600kbps and i noticed that in many internet cafes the connection is even slower. So her reaction was quite understandable.

Also her reaction by the way, when someone it being helped to find someone they are mostly a bit afraight and in reaction to it they will push the party that wants to meet sometimes to quick away so they will not get hurt, Next to it she must be afraight because of her english skills (i guess) if so tell Vera to remember that to speak with out mistakes is not important at all. To be able to communicate and have a nice conversation is most important. Especialy since most foreigners do not speak russian or ukrainian that well if at all.

Terance, if you are arriving at Borispol you should go by bus or cab to the railwaystation. To get an ticket can be a chalenge. You can also book at borispol an internal flight to Odessa I think, is this correct Irene?

The price should be around $50 instead of about $10 by train.

For the scams with girls meeting men to go out with them to have nice presents and a nice evening out.... What is new in this, I heard the same stories and also about trips that even say that it is just for this and maybe some thing will happen (kind of prostitution) But on the other side there are people that meet eachother and get happy. But also in the western countries there are girls that are cockteasers and live on them. These men let do it to themselves but still a men going to Ukraine should realize to buy apropriate gifts (so not to small but also not to big f.e. belgian chokolates/bonbons and expect the girl not to pay but they do not have to go to the expensive places one can tell also you want to see real ukrainian live and nightlive real nice and not so expensive. Simply tell her she can decide where she normally goes to or what place she likes to go to herselve. If the place is not affordable you can start thinking if she does tell you she picked the place because she was never there and she simply wants to go there and if it is ok with you.... you know she is ok.

At least I think so but what is your experience in it?

Regards

Nick
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 13th June 2003, 02:37
TDog TDog is offline
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TDog
Nick, thanks for your advice, but I already considered your suggestion. It's probably too late to do anything now. Aerosvit and Ukraine international offer daily service from Odessa to Kiev, but all their scheduled flights arrive into Borispol in the morning. I would have to wait 10 hours for my connection in Kiev. My current plan is to arrive in Kiev by train several days prior to my departing flight. I was hoping that I could spend this time in Odessa with Vera instead.

During this time period in Kiev, I was planning on doing some sightseeing, dancing, etc...however my plans in Odessa were no different. The only added expectation I had when traveling to Odessa was that Ira and Vera would accompany me as friends. This involves added expenses but friends look out for each others best interests, correct? After meeting Ira and Vera in person, determining their true intentions would seem very easy in this respect.

And of course it would be easy for them to determine my interests. Ira is a very intelligent woman, but maybe she does not understand Americans very well. At least she does not understand me Perhaps I don't understand Ukrainian people well enough! But I think it's possible to understand each other if we try. SO, my expectations were hopeful towards Vera in this respect, but they were also very realistic. Sometimes it seems we are not living in different countries, but different planets.

I don't think it's natural or ethical to expect a serious relationship from a woman having known each other but a few days. However, its possible that our interests could have developed after our first meeting. In retrospect, it's probably best that by-gones be by-gones, and that I continue with my current travel schedule as planned.


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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 13th June 2003, 06:01
Irene1972 Irene1972 is offline
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Irene1972
NO, Terrance, I didn't understand you. I still don't. In the same situation I would expect peopel react differently and with more trust. I'm not a buisness-lady and didtn' not mean to have business relationship with you. So, rejecting your "offer" to fix you ticket to Borispol was not unprofessional. My focus was my friend who you rejected and my response was adequate.

However, we could meet if you still wanted to. I won't speak fo Vera, only for myself. And what expenses? I would not allow you to bear any expenses on my behalf. If you mean restaurants I would just apologise and say that I can't afford it. Don't American girls do that? Actually, it's a good test for a Ukrainian girl. Show her you want to spend money on her and see her response
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 13th June 2003, 06:46
fenicks fenicks is offline
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fenicks
Hi Terance and Irene,

Please meet and do not make an ongoing quarrel again.

Terance, as I understood irenes refusal it was not one. She wanted to put you to think why should she since you just told her you do not consider her to be trusthworthy.

Irene, just my point one can see from what a girl will accept from you and what not and how she reacts what are her goals. Besides the most expensive ones are in the longterm the ones we decide to marry with

Terence, go to Odessa and take a gamble....

Regards,

Nick
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 20th June 2003, 16:56
AndyItaliano AndyItaliano is offline
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AndyItaliano
Cool Meeting Vera

Ciao ragazze..hi ladies, my name is Andy ( Andrea) I'm from Italy , of course I write 'cause I'm really interested in meeting Vera .., Irene you must have such a good heart to take care of your friend Vera in this way..it's very nice of you....I'll try to get to Kiev this summer ( hoping to find a cooler weather than here,.,,( in italy it's almost 35 - 37 degrees,,with sometimes 60% humiditry , gosh !!!!) The only doubt I have is that Vera will surely meet several people..and sometimes , ( it is a matter of personal dignity )in this case men are almost like numbers and not human beings..( who I think I am..jejeje)..I say this for a matter of personal respect, but i really would like to meet this lady..honestly...and I suppose Vera is serious enough to give her time to each one..without offending noone's sentiments..I had the chance to meet someone from Russia and Ukraina...and they usually have good culture and respect...which is , of course, a good quality..! May I know if it's possible to be sent a picture of Vera ? Of course I will reply with my own pic..! ciaooo ! Andy...
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