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  #29 (permalink)  
Old 21st September 2000, 23:59
LippyChick LippyChick is offline
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I'm fully well aware of what Ukraine did in the war. How it was mullered. Did you know it took Kyiv twice the time to fall as it did for the entirety of France?

If you want to understand the UIA, then I suggested you read some thing about Ukraine under Stalin. Perhaps the Harvest of Sorrow: Robert Conquest.

The site infoukes has a lot of info, but it's to Diaspora for me.

Are you aware of what happen in Ukraine in the 1930's? If you were I'd think you'd find the saving there own ass line some what out of place. I as most second generation Ukrainians are well aware of the history of the Warsaw up rising and don't condone the action of the Soviets, in fact I'm completely appalled by it, but it serves no purpose to level the responsibility on Ukrainians.

Also I'm in the picture as to the sacrifice the ANZAC's made in WW1, it acutely amazes me Australia never pushed and became a republic earlier. Have you been to Gallipoli? I'm also aware of the Indian role in the WW1. The war graves there are shocking. Those guy must have wondered where they hell they were. I know the world would be a very different picture without the ANZAC's and empire / commonwealth people being prepared for the ultimate sacrifice.

On the subject of sport my whole family are Rugby League fans. We support Swinton, from north Manchester, however as I live in London, I watch the Broncos whenever I get chance. Not that it's been to pleasant this year.

There's homelessness and prostitution in all cities, if London was half as bad as Ukraine, it would be a thousand times better than it is at present.

You should learn a little bit about a country before taking issue with it.

Also I doubt I melt, that is unless you looked Like ET. ET from the Sharks that is, not the movie :-)

LippyChick

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Life is all: Money, Pleasure and Period Pain
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  #30 (permalink)  
Old 22nd September 2000, 02:33
Shevster Shevster is offline
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What a great bloke your friend is, buying photos like this, He must be quite a sicko to do that.

As for what you've said about Ukraine. these problems exist all over Europe and I don't recognize the whores all over the Kyiv situation at all. There are Putarni in some of the night clubs, but whores are everywhere in Europe, I think you're friend was full of it. If he went looking for it I'm sure he'd find it. The same can be said in every country in Europe. England included.

You have some great friends, are they so sad that they go around the world looking for prostitutes? I'm afraid I'd describe them as losers.

We are all aware of the problems that face Ukraine and all of eastern Europe, however, your line about truth rings a little hollow when you know so little about the country, other than what a couple of whore chasing mates have told you. That is why you sound so ignorant.

Do you really think it's your place to point out to people who live in Ukraine, that their country is terrible? It isn't and if you'd been there with a mind open to culture history and beauty you'd know that.

Have you ever been out of Australia?

I would say loads of the old fellas from the Ukrainians clubs would be upset if they returned to Ukraine, but this tends to stem from an idealized view of the country, engendered by being cut off from the place for 40 odd years.

I know Ukrainian clubs that will not show 'Fire and Sword' because it'll up set the old timers. However we still show them respect, because they went through horrors we can hardly imagine and I can handle watching the film at home.

Why do you want a Ukrainian women and why are you interested in Ukraine if you think it's such a dump?

If you can't be bothered reading about Ukraine and Ukrainian culture, why not ask people to tell you about the place?

It's your ignorance that makes you sound so prejudiced.

Read what I've said before sounding off at me.

I'm not a Ukrainian nationalist, I'm not a nationalist of any kind, but I do know there's a big picture out there that we are only seeing snap shots of.

Stepan.
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  #31 (permalink)  
Old 22nd September 2000, 06:36
steve_vlasenko steve_vlasenko is offline
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Jason,

I don't recognize this picture of Kyiv either and I was just there 8 hours ago.

Where did your friends visit? If it was in Kyiv in which part of town? Did they give you the street names? I have friends and family all over Kyiv and I'll be able to verify there assertions. I've never seen anyone sleeping in a box in Kyiv. Are they getting confused with London. Begging exist in Ukraine, of course it does, but it ain't half as bad as in London or Paris or Amsterdam or any western European capital. You see their stories of Ukraine don't quite ring true, as people do another activity in the city that help them get by. It's not as degrading as begging and provides a service to the city. If you friends had been to Kyiv they'd have been fully well aware of this.

I lived in Ukraine for 3 years 1994 -1997 and have worked in and around there since then. I've spent in total 8 weeks of this year in Ukraine. So I do have some experience of the place. However, Jason, I'm also smart enough not to assume I know everything and the fact that I now have a stupendously high paying job keeps some of the harsh realities away from me.

Vlas. 8 & a half hours back in England.
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  #32 (permalink)  
Old 22nd September 2000, 16:40
StasUA StasUA is offline
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So you're one of those jason, that think they know everything... hehe lol, well you're not worth a fight. 2 and a half months in Ukraine.... WOW! what a experience they got! Hehe... I lived in Ukraine for over 10 years, and for the other 4 years of my life, I've lived in NYC(But of course I'm going back to Kyiv, NYC isn't half as civilized as Kyiv.)

About drugs... did you know how hard it is to get drugs in New-York? All you have to do, is enter any high school(for example, the one I'm going to) and ta-da! What ever you like... also 13-19 years old "whores" all over and outside the school.

Good luck! Don't await anymore posts from me, I got more important things to spend my time on(For example: watch my cactus grow)

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  #33 (permalink)  
Old 26th September 2000, 20:14
Phillip Phillip is offline
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I am staggerd that you guys are reacting like this!!!

If you all treated everyone the way you have treated this guy then nobody would look good. Least of all, the two he has targeted.

Maybe you need to look at things from a different aspect.

Nobody is perfect but this Aussie bashing from certain Poms is just not on.

Not here not anywhere

Voice your jelousy elsewhere and stop treating Ukies as though they were too stupid to see when they are actually being picked on as opposed to being jousted.

Jason,
You would like Ukranians if you were there - much more then you possibly could right now.

I am sorry it has got like this - there is no sense at all.

Why am I the only one seeing this? Really!!! THINK.

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  #34 (permalink)  
Old 27th September 2000, 00:28
steve_vlasenko steve_vlasenko is offline
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Phillip,

As you're obvious referring to me, can you show me where I bashed Australians? I used one comment to illustrate the how easy lazy ignorant racism is.

As for POMs surely that's a term of abuse? I assume your unaware of where the term POM comes from. Prisoner Of (his/her) Majesty. So that'll be the original white Australians.

Ain't saying the things he did about Britain, bashing Brits?

Is acceptable to bash Britain and Ukraine, but to take a stand against this is totally wrong and Australian bashing. Once again I ask you to point out where I bashed Australians

I and I can only speak for me, took issue with Jason's abusive culturally superior tone towards Ukraine and Ukrainians. His referring to Ukrainian men as losers. His statement that the Ukrainian Diaspora were defectors as opposed to people who had no choice but to leave. The 'saving their own ass' line demonstrating an absolute lack of knowledge of Ukrainian history. His assumption he new everything about Ukraine although he was offering his opinions on the basis of second hand news from two people who'd spent only two and a half months in Ukraine.

What jealousy am I voicing? Jealousy because I'm not an Australian? Jealousy because I don't think I know everything about Ukraine. Picking on or jostled is irrelevant to me, it's the ignorant statements about Ukraine that, in my opinion, required challenging.


As I've said many time before I've worked in and around Ukraine for 6 years and would at no time assume I knew or was in a position to assert I knew everything about anything in respect to Ukraine. I speak from personal experience and look to expand this experience by learning.

Surely this is a discussion site about Ukraine for people with strong opinions about Ukraine, which can help us all learn and discover more about this beautiful country.

That's all.

Vlas.
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  #35 (permalink)  
Old 27th September 2000, 04:32
Shevster Shevster is offline
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Phillip,

I also assume you're referring to me.

I think Vlas has nearly said it all for me. Your friend repeatedly said if you can't take the knocks etc, so I don't think he can take issue with anyone objecting to his reality of what constitutes Ukraine.

We all have opinions on Ukraine, the problem is Jason has never been there and knew almost nothing about the place, but felt at liberty to air his highly prejudicial views.

Stepan
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