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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 13th August 2002, 22:12
stigharaldsson stigharaldsson is offline
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Holland> Yeah but who cares about the French anyway? They're just plain mad

Rajkumar> I think some of the reasons might lie in their soviet past and weakening of conservative sexual values as well as the state being there to back you up after a divorce.

Kaizer> "What is the reason for you and your friend to go there?. Ukraine is not on the top ten list for tourist hotspots, so why go there"..."When I was down there I really was interested about the people and their country and not about sex".

I'm male and I appologize for that. I have a sexual desire and I went to Ukraine to satisfy it. But also to see an unkown part of Europe and experience the social-realism of the former USSR. I formed my opinion about Ukrainians by speaking to all kinds of people which I socialized with for different reasons. But still, don't consider my words law since I didn't really conduct an objective poll throughout all Ukrainian citizens. And I can assure you, as a backpacker I didn't live in very luxuruous conditions. The first thing I did when I got back home was to search through my packing for cockroaches.

Sweet November (first post)> Yeah sure you're right on. Happy to have it confirmed since some doubts were raised about it's validity. I don't really know if it's true all Ukrainians are raised to be liars and cheats. I can't say that was my experience but then again I never really risked anything by trusting anyone.

Laryska> If a boss hires someone on the basis of how good that person performs in bed and nothing else. Wouldn't it be social-darwinism enough if his company went under due to unskilled personell?

CameoJoe> If you want I can find you a potential business partner in Ukraine. He's Australian and plans to build up a chain of youth-hostels in Ukraine and is in dire need of partners. Anyway, 50 pounds would probably take you quite a bit if that's your budget on drinks alone. A bottle of champange (Sovjetskaya) costs about two pounds a one litre of 17 % beer about 40 pennies. Anyway, spending money on drinks and food on a girl is a big must if you want to score. In fact it seemed to me like when a girl accepted that you took her out for dinner it also meant she would have sex with you afterwards. It seemed as if that's what the Ukrainian guys expected anyway. Watch out though. There are plenty of trolls, especially girlfriend's of friends or driven girls that speak exceptionally good English.

Bristol> Odessa is all about spending money. You'd do better and on a lesser budget in the eastern part of Ukraine and Kharkov in particular. I could reccomend you an ok hotel right in the centre where you only pay about 5 pounds a night. Anyway, before you go make sure you master some conversational Russian linguistics (even minimal) since it'll enhance your trip something immeansly. No girl will speak to you if you're opening line will be "Pa Anglayski?". And if you speak English to them they'll just ignore you all together.

Sweet November (second message)> I guess I'm one of those "losers" that come to Ukraine and who can't find girls back home. But this world is more than 2-dimensional as I'm sure you know. And being called a loser does hurt.

ToxS> Even if you did come to Ukraine and said "I'm from Milan **** Me!!" you would get a "Well **** You" back at the best. I'm telling you right now, the scene is pretty different from popular imagination in the West.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 13th August 2002, 23:11
ToXS ToXS is offline
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ToxS> Even if you did come to Ukraine and said "I'm from Milan **** Me!!" you would get a "Well **** You" back at the best. I'm telling you right now, the scene is pretty different from popular imagination in the West.
[/B][/QUOTE]

And there we have it...!!!!

I read this and I was going to walk away, but then I read it again and again....Argh..!!!

Ok lets take a look at this slowly.
First I have asked myself why am I going to Ukraine....answer straight...see the post "Is it safe".

Second I am under no "imagination of the West", I have seen the capital...see the post "Is it safe".

And last but not least, if your "budget" is 50 or 100 a day, a week, a flippin year....budget for what..??? To see the sights, stay in a hotel, hostel, whatever, that I understand. But to approach a girl and have a good time with her..?!

I will be quiet honest if you rate your girl on the amount of money you spend on her before you meet her, you get what you are paying for.
I will take it that most of us ( I did say almost)...are from western part of the world, and in YOUR part of the world when did your first date add up to 50...or any amount..??? You brought enough to have fun...and pray it will last...

Now if I was really to belive rumours then I would just bring an old pair of Levis, take a picture of a Lexus in a show room, and go....when I'd get there I'd just claim i have 5 of each in different colours....lol....Christ I would be King...!!!

PS....I am not trying to light anyones temper....
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 14th August 2002, 03:29
CameoJoe CameoJoe is offline
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Hi Stigharaldsson!!!

HiYa Stig,

I like your honest words in relation to your actual experience in Ukraine.
I've been to both Ukraine and Russia and my experience was a bit different from yours but still the same in many ways. I met many nice ladies and also understand the situation for them to a degree. I was looking to meet the culture first rather than the ladies but luckily for me I met both.

SweetNovember,

Your approach to life is great and I'm applauding your frank approach to question and comments here on Ukie..lol
You have it figured well on tourists and loser's as many of them do not have a high mental rate when it comes to culture but rather a sex-driven agenda.
I hope you keep the ant's in the pants of those who diagree with your genuine knowledge and experience..lol

CameoJoe
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 14th August 2002, 04:40
Laryska Laryska is offline
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Laryska
Stig,
I am not sure if you understood my comment about the women in ukraine sleeping around to get a good job.
I just said this happens, I don't think it is right... but this happens. These women need jobs, they want money, they are goodlooking and they know how to use this to their advantage. Many North Americans do the same thing. Our society is geared towards sex, good looks.... anything that sells. I'm not saying it's social darwinism or anything, I'm not saying it's good. I'm saying this is reality! A sad reality.
However, I have to admit that I tend to use my female sexuality in order to get what I want. I would never sleep around to become successful. However, if I ever need a job, and I know that the interviewer is someone who is so dense, and doesn't care about knowledge, or expertise I wouldn't be scared to give him a big smile, and use my looks as secret weapons to get what I want.
Using ones physical appearence to achieve a degree of success is one thing, but degrading ones self to a sex object and performing sexual favours in order to achieve one's success is stupid, and one has a very low selfesteem by doing this.
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 14th August 2002, 05:59
CameoJoe CameoJoe is offline
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CameoJoe
Self Esteem and code of conduct???

HiYa,

While many cultures are driven by monetary need and gain it is also true that culture and conduct play a large part in any society.The Eskimos used to place a first born child on the ice to die if it was female to extend the existence of the people. Am I to do the same? No I would not do the same but I would respect the culture and the aspects of life they dealt with.
Womens issues are interesting but not universal due to cultural facts that seem to vary and not contribute to the possitive mind flow of the western woman in general state of mind and thought. It's as if the western woman has a way of understanding the world as long it agrees with her narrow and sometimes biased opinion of the world.

CameoJoe
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 14th August 2002, 06:39
SweetNovember SweetNovember is offline
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SweetNovember
Quote:
Originally posted by stigharaldsson

Sweet November (second message)> I guess I'm one of those "losers" that come to Ukraine and who can't find girls back home. But this world is more than 2-dimensional as I'm sure you know. And being called a loser does hurt.
Oh it should )) I hope there is a third dimention to your life where you are proud of what you are doing and no one would dare call you a loser. But going on a sex tour in an economically distressed country... sorry I cannot respect that. Hope you read our HIV rates before you went.

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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 15th August 2002, 13:42
Kaizer Kaizer is offline
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Kaizer
Stigharaldsson,

Your comment: Yeah but who cares about the French anyway? They're just plain mad.
Look at yourself before you talk about them.

Your comment: I'm male and I apologize for that. I have a sexual desire and I went to Ukraine to satisfy it.

Guess what I am also male and I dont exploit woman in countries where there is economical difficulties. Conclusion is that you dont have any moral values, but you like to talk about these woman.
Now I know I am also married to a Russian lady who lived in Ukraine. But read my tread about respect before you comment.


SweetNovember,

On your comment: The women who have top jobs in Europe and Ukraine refused to live with this culture.
This is one of the reasons why anyone can be proud of these woman. They dont just sit back and except the situation. They at least try to change it. Just remember that change start with yourself.
I dont say that the whole of Ukraine must leave but if I was unhappy I would leave no matter what.
Now I know you will say it is easy for me to talk but I did not live all my life in Europe. I am only here 5 years. I came from a very violent country and I refused to live like that. I had a lot of problems to get to Europe, but I am here. It took me eight years of my life to accomplish this but it is worth the effort. At least our child has a more stable future.
The reason I tell you this is because I see you and stigharaldsson like to make us believe that Ukrainian woman are bad. And I still refuse to believe that all will jump in bed to reach their goal. A lot still have some self respect.
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