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Old 17th July 2002, 16:03
Kaizer Kaizer is offline
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I have red a lot of stories about men that think they know Ukraine/Russian woman. It is just sad to read about all the remarks made about these woman. I think the problem lies with the men looking for woman to be their perfect bride. Sure enough there is woman that is not honest but the same goes to some men. They have such high expectations about this and that is where things goes wrong. Once they found a beautiful woman they expect these woman to kiss the ground they walk on. They think these woman should be forever grateful because they were poor and look at the super lives they have now. They then think they can start treating these woman as objects and not give them the love and respect that they deserve. What do they expect, a happy marriage?.

I am not a expert but would like to tell my story. I just went true a divorce and was in quiet a mess. On a day I was bored and was looking for a chat site. I then started chatting with a woman from the Ukraine. We chatted for a couple of months before I actually called her by telephone. I only saw her as a friend and not more. On a day I decided to go for a vacation to the Ukraine with her. I then only ask her for a photo to be able to recognize her at the airport. She was beautiful but the main thing was that I made a friend. Going there I had a wonderful time and our friendship turned to a relationship. It was great for the simple reason that I did not had any expectations about us.

Coming home we decided together that she will come and live with me. I told her that I could not afford flying up and down but I want to be with her. We made it very clear to each other what we expect from each other and what we want from this relationship. Basically both of us just wanted mutual respect and love. After two years living together we decided to get married. We are married now for eight months and it is great.

Basically what I am trying to say is that if you would respect them as a woman and not as a desperate sorry case you will get respect and love back. Maybe worth considering before you start with a relationship.

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Old 17th July 2002, 16:49
Donquichotte Donquichotte is offline
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Kaizer,

Welcome on Ukraine.com and thanks for sharing your own experience. You'll find out reading the past threads most of us (if not all)agree with your conclusion.

A few will post threads such as "Frenchman, in good condition, desperate to meet the Ukrainian love of his life" or " Californian, tired of his surfboard's company, would do anything to even talk to an Ukrainian woman", but usually these guys disappear from this web as fast as they arrive.
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Old 19th July 2002, 08:24
Rajkumar Rajkumar is offline
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Smile Help me out here Kaizer,What say you Wiseman Donquichotte

Kaizer,I am happy things turned out well for you in this manner.You have further added that you must respect them as woman and not as a desperate sorry case than only you will get the respect and love back from them.Then it would be true to say that you must respect them as woman and not pity them to get the respect and love from them.So when you have pity on a woman you don't expect the woman to respect you in return.If that is so tell me Kaizer what are the things you look for in a woman to respect them? I am sure it is character,self respect and integerity being the main criteria you will look for a woman to respect followed by many others dependind on what else we look for in a woman to respect her as such.Why can't it be pity in a woman? Of course you can't take pity as a criteria to respect a woman but one could take pity on a woman to love and care for her.I am confused here Kaizer on pity or what you call a desperate sorry case of such woman and yet to me I would respect her as what she is and still take care of her and love her.That's what I did Kaizer on my woman I pitied on her and married her but sad to say it ended in a divorce.So there must be some truth in what you are trying to say Kaizer and it would be a great help if you make me undrestand exactly what you mean.Donquichotte I am sure Kaizer is trying to tell me at least something.Kaizer one wiseman told me "To love someone is to enable the person to hurt you, to become vulnerable to this one person,the risk is high,so is the reward,the end of quest is just the begining of real difficulties ahead of you and the fight is over -marriage is celebrated." What do you think of these wise words said by this wiseman Kaizer?
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Old 19th July 2002, 12:48
Kaizer Kaizer is offline
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Re: Help me out here Kaizer,What say you Wiseman Donquichotte

First I would like to say I am sorry things did not work out for you. You are right that I said respect them as a woman. Personally I dont agree in what you have said: Why cant it be pity in a woman. Why should you pity them. It would be a different story if you want to help someone, but in our case we want to share our lifes with them. It goes without saying that character, self respect and integrity is one of the ingredients you would look for in a relationship.

Thru my wife I met a lot of Ukraine/Russian woman and there partners. I am still shocked in the things I hear from the partners. Things like they should be grateful that I took them from there, and look at the luxury they have here ect. The worst of it all is that this is not isolated incidents. I have heard and red about this sort of thing a lot of times. I always tell people to look at it from the other side. You should be happy that she is willing to share her life with you. Before I met my wife I had and still have everything, house, two cars, good job ect. I am of course grateful for that but my life was empty. What is life if you cant share it with somebody you love.

As far as what the wise man told you, I dont agree with it. I have always been taught to leave every person in their own value. If you do that you have already won this persons respect.


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Old 23rd July 2002, 07:57
Donquichotte Donquichotte is offline
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The wiseman is always right for he is the wiseman

Kaizer is trying to tell me at least something.Kaizer one wiseman told me "To love someone is to enable the person to hurt you, to become vulnerable to this one person,the risk is high,so is the reward,the end of quest is just the begining of real difficulties ahead of you and the fight is over -marriage is celebrated." What do you think of these wise words said by this wiseman Kaizer? [/B][/QUOTE]


Good morning Raj,
Hi Kaizer,
I have been away for the past few days and could not answer sooner.
I believe we have here massive cases of misunderstanding between Kaizer and us.(otherwise he would not disagree with the wiseman).

Taking persons for their own value is not contradictory with the idea of being vulnerable at all.

First of all, to find out the real value of a person takes time (at first all you have is face value) and can lead to many mistakes if you're a bit fast in judging them.

And then, if that "special" person cannot hurt you, how can you say you care for her, not even to say you're in love.
You can respect someone, take him/her for what she is, not perfect most likely, and yet be hurt by something he/she will do to you.
If you are untouched, unmoved, then you're not in love,cynicism has taken over and you are just enjoying whatever benefit you can grab from a relationship waiting for its necessary end.
If knowledge of what the other person is worth has nothing to do, it can be about the loss of self respect in some extreme cases : One can fully appreciate how unbalanced, mean one woman/man can be, and still love her/him despite that no matter how hard he/she will be hit.

But that cannot last and eventually he/she will get rid of the other person.


As for the difficulties connected to love and time, well Kaizer if you went through a tough divorce I am sure you know better than anyone what this is all about.
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Old 24th July 2002, 10:13
Rajkumar Rajkumar is offline
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Kaizer,you have made me understand something and that's how I did react to my wife at certain times but not at all times.It was the manner your friends often said to you and I did the same.You have made me realise this important fact that one should never at all behave in this manner to a woman whom we pitied or to the women of a desperate sorry case."They should be grateful that I took them from there"is often said to my wife at certain times but not at all times and that too Kaizer at certain situations.Donquichotte my wiseman, Kaizer has driven a point right to my brains by that statements made not only by his friends but sad to say also by me.Donquichotte please listen to my side with my wife.Whenever things don't go my way or in any missunderstandings with my wife I am quick to react in the manner what Kaizer had just pointed out.I would often say it this way to my wife and deep within me this is what I felt that "" after all she is a woman of poverty and there is no appreciation from her.""How ungrateful can she be"."She has shown her true colours" This is how I often felt and said not only to my ex-wife but also to my friends about my ex-wife whenever I had a problem with my ex-wife..Besides these statements were always said when things don't go the way I wanted with my ex-wife or in any misunderstandings with her.All this was said to my wife just because I expected it my way with my wife and when she reacts in such a manner which was not expected from her, I take her poverty as an excuse and even up with her just to hurt her.I was taking advantage of her poverty and took it as an excuse to even up with her.I was demanding respect from her in other words and her poverty was a sort of criteria which made me demand the respect for me.You are right Kaizer that's not the way to behave,react or demand a respect from a woman of poverty or a sorry desperate case.Can you see it now Donquichotte on what Kaizer is trying to say.To be very honest Kaizer it was never my intention to behave this way with my ex-wife but the reaction to me in such a manner to my ex-wife seems like a natural human reaction though it is wrong.I suppose if I had married a girl of my status I wouldn't have reacted in this manner.That's what my wife would always say in return that if she was from the same status as me I would not of treated her in this manner.At that time I never realised this Kaizer and you are right to point out this thing to me and what you thought of your friends in the same situation like me you are right in every way.Thanks Kaizer and I will learn this valuable lesson you taught me but this attitude will thake sometime to change from me but I will make all attempts to change it.Laryska maybe just maybe the spark I am looking for is right there.But my wiseman Donquichotte will not have reacted the way I reacted to such woman.Whatever it maybe but Donquichotte has wise words and I only wish he could tell his part of his story with the woman he loved.Something tells me that those wise words of his is from the experience with the women he is or was in love.Donquichotte tell me who are you after all? Hope Laryska will agree on this about Donquichotte.
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Old 24th July 2002, 15:23
Kaizer Kaizer is offline
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Respect

Hi Donquichotte and Rajkumar,

Donquichotte reading your letter all I can do is agree with you. This is really some wise words and it had me thinking. I have never look at it from that way.


Rajkumar I know that all of us said things to our love ones that never should have been said. But from your mistakes you learn. I like this site because it is nice reading about other peoples views. I am sure that all of us can learn from each other.
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