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What are my odds for success with the ladies?

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  #8 (permalink)  
Old 4th February 2002, 08:04
Steven Steven is offline
Join Date: Mar 2001
Posts: 52
Red face

So, dear stigharaldsson, prostitutes are not your cup of tea, eh??? What do you call what you are doing then. Throwing your cash around, lavishing a lady with dinners, drinks or gifts looks pretty much the same to me as giving her a handful of cash for a good time. There is no difference as I see it. My advice is for you to grow up a little. Perhaps you are still naive, product of the society you live in??? You talk from a position of someone that has never had to contend with the real hardships in life. These ladies you are planning to win over for a one-night stand are not looking for the childish antics of the likes of you. For them life is more than a game, and every day is fight for survival. Having been to Ukraine for a good number of times myself, I have seen the dire economic situation, and I have also seen some of the lengths people will resort to in order to live. I have travelled to some of the poorest regions and towns and it has been a rewarding experience to see the heart and character of these people. Treat them with respect, not as subhumans that will do anything for a foreigner flashing a handful of dollars around.

I originally come from a country that has undergone many changes and in many ways resembles the same situation as in Ukraine. Living in Europe for the last 3,5 years, I have seen first-hand that the people in the affluent West have no idea of difficulty and suffering. I do not wish to be a party-pooper, and I hope that you go over there and have a rich and rewarding time as I have each time I go. I have a Ukraininan fiancee, we have been together for quite a long time and will be married this year. I have spent substantial time in her country and it has helped me to understand her that much better. She still sees the western mindset a little strange although she is settling into life here pretty well. These women are indeed beautiful and wonderful people, with remarkable qualities, qualities you will fail to see if you persist with a shallow vision of the world and an all-consuming need for short-term self-gratification. I remember I was 19 too, but I am only 9 years on and still have enough youthful virility left in me. I only offer you advice in the hope that you treat others on the same level as the opinion you hold of yourself. Just because one is less advantaged than you does not mean that they are not your equals on most levels. You are young, go out, have fun, enjoy yourself tremendously, but don't abuse or hurt others in the process. Play open cards and allow those that want to play the same game to join in.

I am not trying to preach to you from some sort of moral highground, I do not care what you do, as long as no-one is taken advantage of or mislead in any way. Remember this in life and you'll reap the benefits. Remember too, You don't have to go after clothing attendants, but only need to drop in at one of the many nightclubs. Go fulfill your dreams with those that are looking for the same immediate gratification, you'll probably not be disappointed. Happy hunting!!!
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  #9 (permalink)  
Old 5th February 2002, 18:50
johncullen johncullen is offline
Former Member
Join Date: Jul 2001
Posts: 473
Just more more thing Swede, where's your manners ? people here have taken the trouble to answer you in the best way they could. So why don't you now surprise us all and show some appreciation...thanks will do !
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  #10 (permalink)  
Old 5th February 2002, 21:36
Jasperthecat Jasperthecat is offline
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 48
stigharaldsson, you are young and the world is full of opportunity, but I do agree with many of the comments the others have made. Sure go and enjoy yourself, see if you can meet people, see the country, make friends, enjoy a different culture, but if you just go to 'pick up' exotic women, don't complain when you get you fingers burnt because you surely will. I have been to both Brazil and Ukraine. Go to make friends and enjoy yourself, if you meet someone, fine, but don't let that be your motivation. There is too much of this mariage/dating tourism and put yourself in other people's shoes and you would find it pretty offensive if that is your only motivation. Why not try and post to some Ukrainian or Brazilian web sites for friends- perhaps to later exchange visits. You will have someone who knows the area, who can show you around and will be able to tell you all about their country. I made several friends in this way-and I leant a great deal of interest. I found people in both countries very friendly and helpful if they understand an honest desire to know more about their countries and people. I would certainly be very weary of visiting parts of Brazil without someone who knew the area (and there lies one of the advantages of knowing someone there). On my first visit a friend was held up at gun point by a drunk policeman who robbed him, and several of us had to be rushed out of a night club when it was raided by an armed gang- again it was Brazilian friends who got us out of this mess, otherwise I doubt we would have had a clue what to do, and dealing with the Brazilian police is not an experience you would want.
No one is saying don't enjoy yourself, but be honest, would you appreciate visitors to your country if their main motivation was to pick up women, and it does show a lack of respect to them, they are people and often living in harsh conditions we do not have to experience. It also gives genuine visitors a bad reputation as people will think that any foreigner is there for only one reason. Do your research, get to know people and don't be afraid to ask questions.You have time on your side so take your time in planning a visit to which ever country you want to go to. You will see here much about scams- it is very easy to be parted with you money. Make it something to remember and hopefully repeat, not something you will regret.
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  #11 (permalink)  
Old 6th February 2002, 08:52
stigharaldsson stigharaldsson is offline
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 43
Cameo Joe - Thanks for the encouragment.

Ross - I know all about that. But I heard the same about Peru and Brazil before I went there. Yet most of women I dated were around 25-30. So you never know how things turn out in real life.

Steven - I would never go around flashing with fancy gifts or dollarbills. That would really be demeaning. If a woman would ask me for some kind of "gift" in return for having been with her, I would turn her down. In fact I allready have.

"You shouldn't pull them all over one comb", as we say around here. Meaning that you shouldn't assume all the women are nice ladies with serious intentions. Some of them surely are. But alot are just out for one thing. And if you got a good eye for character, it won't take long before you find out who's who. I think it comes natural to treat other persons in the same manner as they treat you. If she's just out to take advantage of you, then it's ok for you to do the same with her (still maintaining the manners of a gentleman and treating her with respect though). But if she's of a sweet loving character with the desire and potential to get emotionally involved, it would be absurd to take advantage.

And it's not like this is a "Rich tourist + Third world starving woman" thing. This goes on in our own Western countries as well. It's not that unusual that a modern liberated Western woman marries someone 25 years older largely because he's wealthy. In the beginning money may work as the initiator (to an otherwise unlikely relation), but pretty soon it will turn out if the chemistry will work and true emotions will aspire.

The important thing is that you go open-minded. I wouldn't go to Ukraine thinking only about getting laid. I would leave all doors open, and not rule out anything.

John Cullen - Thanks!

Jasper - I just recently got home from a 5-month stay in Brazil. You're probably right about the advantage of getting alot of local friends. But I'm just not very social. I like going out with other people at night, but find it hard to socialize during normal daily conditions. I managed pretty well in Brazil alone, probably because I knew alot of Spanish and could adjust that to Portuguese.

I don't agree with you that it's offensive to visit a certain country for it's women. Personally I wouldn't get offended if I met a Japanese tourist who told me he came to Sweden for the sexy women. Maybe I would be if he told me he thought about leaving for England or something because the Swedish girls are so darn ugly. I do understand that the pure sex-tourism as the one to Thailand might be offensive, but that's about "paying for sex" and pretty different.

In Brazil I had alot of girlfriends. But I also met a very very special woman who I fel madly in love with. I was with her for four months. And it was she who left me. I agree the Brazilian police shouldn't be messed with, I saw a group of Military Policemem kicking a guy in the stomach several times when he was lying down without moving.

Btw, in which country did the women have the most positive attitude towards you? In Brazil or Ukraine?
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  #12 (permalink)  
Old 6th February 2002, 10:47
Jasperthecat Jasperthecat is offline
Join Date: Nov 2001
Posts: 48
Smile Brazil !

Hi Mr Stigharaldsson- 5 months in Brazil and you came back ! Id have stayed !
I first visited (Rio, Sao Paulo mainly) when I was your age and made a lot of friends I still write and visit 16 years later. A wonderful country. Where did you stay when you were there ?
Regards comparing Brazil and Ukraine, I am not really qualified to judge having only been to the Ukraine once. I was visiting a girl I had been writing to for about 9 months, but it didnt really work out between us, although I saw something of Kiev (and to arrive on Independence day with all it celebrations was something !) she wasnt really that interested in the city- except for the shops- so I didnt get to see anything like as much as I had hoped. Chalk it up to experience I suppose. I did meet an interesting Ukrainian guy on this site who sent me a lot of excellent web sites on Ukraine and this sparked my interest once again. Through one of these sites I made a pen friend with a woman who teaches English at one of the Universities. Her help in learning Russian and learning more about the country is invaluable. She is coming to the UK this summer for course here, so we plan to meet, and I hope to visit Ukraine again quite soon. My advice about trying to make some pen friends before you go is based on this experience as I have learnt far more about the country this way and will be much better prepared for my next visit. To compare Brazil and Ukraine- difficult for the reasons I have just given, my experience is limited and coloured by what happened to me. I would say that Ukrainians do appear a bit weary and stand offish at first, but I found them warm and friendly once they got to know you, and the people I met had a great sense of humour. Most Brazilians I found were very forward and friendly from the beginning as you probably experienced yourself. In a strange way I found the countries similar in some respects- a strong sense of family and friends and a rather stoical view of the world.
I am sure you will enjoy your visit to Ukraine and the more effort you put in at the start, the more you will get in return, but see if you can make some pen friends first, but there is a lot of good advice on this site too. If you want to share your experiences about Brazil drop me an email, I like to know more about what you made of your time thereshame there is no brazil.com. Enjoy Ukraine !
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  #13 (permalink)  
Old 8th February 2002, 11:00
stigharaldsson stigharaldsson is offline
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 43

I visited places like Rio, Belo Horizonte and Recife sporadically. But I spent most of the time, about 4 months in Salvador. There's where I met my great love. I didn't like the place too much at first (I was spoiled from having been in Peru). And was on my way embark on a route out of Brazil when I met "her".

As a newcomer I found it pretty hard to get girlfriends in Brazil. Alot of the women were arrogant, and they didn't find the gringo-look that attractive. But after some time I learned how to go about it, the secret words were "clothing attendants".

My most adventerous time in Brazil was the first few weeks when I travelled around on my own. I saw and experienced alot of things. And when I settled down in Salvador, I set out for a quiet but more volatile journey within. It's a time very hard to talk about. Because it involves feelings, emotions and experiences that doesn't have words and can't really be understood from an objective perspective.

Thanks for the reply.
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  #14 (permalink)  
Old 26th February 2002, 03:37
alyona_f alyona_f is offline
Former Member
Join Date: Feb 2002
Posts: 1
Everything is a bit different, Swede. If you will come here to pester clothingstores attendants, in downtown, you will probably learn some vocabulary of russian profanities, all girls are someone's wives or girl friends. Don't forget stores mostly belong to some mafia clans, where owners kinda bandits and environment in those stores not a very friendly. Even if you coming to spend money and buy something in those stores, you always feel discomfort and believe me, my friend, you won't utter a word when 2 meters knockout gives you an evil look from the dark corner.... You will have more chances for three days romance if you will travel in some ****hole like Krizhopol or Zmerinka, but if you will travel there with no company, with no friends, then you will feel like an alien and I'm afraid that local outlaws will notice you first. Ukraine is a dangerous place for Romeos, try Chech republic, which is safe country with plenty of Ukrainian girls
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