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Why do men get suckered in?

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Old 27th May 2002, 14:13
Blackman_75 Blackman_75 is offline
Join Date: Apr 2002
Posts: 43
Re: Which cities?

Originally posted by Ulysses
Which cities are you going to?

Originally posted by Blackman_75
I'll keep silent about Lugansk, something tells me you already heard a lot .

What about Lugansk? I'm going to Europe next year and will be in Ukraine a lot. Please tell me of both negatives and positives to watch out for?

I am going to travel to several sites in Ukraine literally all over including: Lviv, Poltava, Odessa, Ivano-Frankovsk, Krivoj Rog, Nikopol, Kiev, Sevastopol, Lugansk, Donetsk and probably many more. Thanks for any info you can give.

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  #51 (permalink)  
Old 29th May 2002, 18:41
Jonathandragon Jonathandragon is offline
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Join Date: May 2002
Posts: 3

My first posting. The impetus of my joining was solely to respond to one of your postings.

You wrote:
I am a Ukrainian woman living in Ukraine. Like every other Ukrainian woman, I am a skilled surviver - it comes naturally when you live in a country as harsh as Ukraine. One of the most basic survival skills here is manipulation. Starting from when she is a teenager every Ukrainian is taught that her success in life depends on how well she learns to manipulate men. Want to move out from your parent's place? Great! Find yourself a guy who lives alone. You want to pass an exam without cramming nights long? Put on a mini-skirt and a revealing tank top.
Look the professor straight into the eyes and and use your tongue to water your lips to demonstrate nervousness. We are tought to dress, walk, and talk in ways that make men loose their minds. Because it's when he's head over heals in love with you that you've got him in your fist. Always tell the guy what he wants to hear. Outguess his expectations of you. Never forget all men are suckers."

Let me preface my remarks with the fact that you have lived the life, and I have only witnessed it. Further, my group of friends in Ukraine, both male and female, share commonalities that make them a thin slice of the Ukrainian populous. Comparing my experience to the norm may be tantamount to taking a survey of Ukrainian newspaper reporters (the kind with heads affixed) to determine if Kutchma will be re-elected.

Ive worked in Ukraine off and on for the past 7 years. I have several Ukrainian friends and many acquaintances, some male, some female. Most are married and middle aged. A few are single and young. Of the married, I am almost exclusively a friend of one partner and simply an acquaintance of their mate. Save for a single instance (which I will discuss later) no one has attempted to manipulate me. My observations, for what they may be worth:

Ukrainian women (probably Eastern European women, I dont really know) differ somewhat from women in the US. Ukrainians have a Love of Family chromosome and a Nesting chromosome that play a more dominant role in their behavior (tongue in cheek, here). The Slavic Heart? I guess. In private conversations, women will generally admit to having had several lovers before determining with whom they will nest. Once they make that choice, they commit, and commit firmly. They seek a strong family, and the nucleus of a strong family is a loving, supportive marriage. They dont cheat, as it would be trampling, with Jack Boots, on the sanctity of family.

A young single woman I know, well educated and quite bright, rather suddenly became capable of earning significant money for her services (no, shes not a hooker). She was earning about a thousand dollars a month. When she first commenced enjoying this earning power, she continued to be frugal, living a rather austere existence, and saved her money. The first thing she did with her savings was to purchase a tractor for her father, a farmer, such that his earning the daily bread for the family would not take such a daunting toll on his body. She did this of her own will, with alacrity, because she WANTED to do it. The second thing she did was to finish buying the family home. She is now married to a delightful fellow, and is working while he finishes his degree. Hard working? Industrious? Committed? Harbours tremendous resolve toward goals? Yes, to all. Manipulative? Not a single manipulative bone in her body!

A middle aged woman, friend of mine, same profession, supported herself, her child, her mother, sister, sisters boyfriend, and her ex-husband, who was physically abusive. I found it nonsequitur that she would support her ex. She did it because she believed he would die if she didnt. Shes now married to a very nice and loving Ukrainian man. Manipulative? No, just hard working and incredibly committed to the sanctity of family.

Ive a woman friend who is on her third marriage. She admits to many lovers, but she has been serially monogamous. She's never cheated. Has she been a poor chooser? Yes, but her last choice has been a caring and educated Ukrainian man. She desired the stability of a loving family, and has found it. Shes a terrific mother.

Once a woman attempted to manipulate me, for sound reason. She is a scientist, exceptionally bright, and was fond of using psychology tricks (discovery, projection, that sort of thing) to get others to arrive at the proper conclusions. In our first meeting, I recognized what she was doing, and she drove the meeting to the technically proper conclusion. She artfully displayed the premises such that a child could draw the syllogism and conclusion. After the meeting, I mentioned, with mirth, that she should tell me before hand to which conclusion was I to be drawn as a moth is to a flame. She laughed, embarrassed. She did not use womanly charm, or cajolery, or blandishments to persuade. She used scientific fundamentals and cogent reasoning to persuade, manipulate if you will. We are wonderful friends.

May I speak now of the Ukrainian men who have befriended me. To a man, they are dedicated to their families. They love their wives and children, and do their best to provide for them. My best Ukrainian friend received a Doctorate from a prestigious American university. His career is not his salient focus. His family maintains that position in his life.

The kindest words of support I received after the World Trade Center incident came from Ukraine. The sweetest of the kindest came from a friend of mine, an engineer who was at Chornobyl when the reactor tragedy unfolded. Perhaps having lived in the middle of a tragedy prepared him for sending those sweet and tender words (in his third language, no less). Hes a wonderful man, and maintains high spirits, despite the daily adversity of life in Slavutych and employment at Chornobyl.

I know two young men, one a friend and one an acquaintance. Both have a goal to find the right woman, marry, and be in love for life, be a caring and nurturing father, and a good husband. These are wonderful young men. Goal oriented. Not manipulative.

Two negative observations of Ukrainian men They all smoke, and they drink too much.

Of the workers at hotels, restaurants, gastronoms, kiosks, the merchants at St. Andrews, no one has ever tried to cheat me. Ive always been treated in a friendly fashion. No one has attempted to manipulate me.

I now end my diatribe, save for a brief codicil: You have lived the life, and I have simply observed it. My Ukrainian friends are all highly educated, Masters or Doctorate, and possess employment that yields adequate remuneration. Enough for their family, which is their quest. Clearly, they are not a representative sample of the population. Also, I am a strange looking man, with my youth but a vestige in the rear view mirror, shrinking fast. I seek neither a Ukrainian bride nor a Ukrainian mistress. These may all play in my never having been manipulated by a Ukrainian woman, or man. My Cyrillic is horrible, so Ill make a phonetic attempt here: Mnye ochin nravista ludi Ykraina!

Thank you for lending an ear.
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  #52 (permalink)  
Old 29th May 2002, 18:48
Irinka Irinka is offline
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Join Date: Mar 2001
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Thumbs up Jonathan

I'd like to Welcome you to Ukraine.com Also, thank you for putting in a good word for us

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