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Why do men get suckered in?

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  #15 (permalink)  
Old 12th May 2002, 05:54
SweetNovember SweetNovember is offline
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Quote:
Originally posted by MidwayDave
Irinka is right again. That's why you don't bring them here right away. That's funny how it works. You take a perfectly good girl from eastern Europe to America and she immediately starts degrading herself like the american girls. Must be the water.
You know Moupassan (sorry don't remember the spelling) once sad that foreign women are most attractive when they don't speak your language. As soon as they learn it <puh> and all attraction is gone....
'That's because while you don't understand a girl, you let your imgination create for you a WHAT YOU WANT. In fact, how can you know who she is if she can't say what she wants.
And also, Irinka is right, even if East European women are different in any way, they adapt quick and the differences are all gone within a year or two.

Most men get suckered in CAUSE THEY DESERVE IT
If he is a guy is a moron enough to believe a 22 yo can be in love with 52 yo - then let him have it in full!!!! None of my US friends would even contemplate looking for a bride abroad.
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  #16 (permalink)  
Old 12th May 2002, 07:13
forest forest is offline
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Maybe I am a little old fashioned, looking for a wife on the internet seems like a market were you go, look at the goods, make your purchase. The trouble is in picking your future wife or husband this way its a little difficult to return shoddy goods. I mean if you are advertising for future spouse, you are not going to say my feet stink much better to get to know eachother over long courtship. Difficult to really get to know someone over telephone wire and short two week meetings
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  #17 (permalink)  
Old 12th May 2002, 11:00
elegua elegua is offline
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partially agree

Hi Forest,

I must partially agree...but it's insulting and not entirely accurate to describe the process as ordering someone like you'd order one of those electronic Ab Belts over the internet.

there are some people who engage in the...well...I have to be honest...bizarre practice of taking a 'romance tour' to meet 300 different women and decide to marry one at the end of two weeks. However, if both parties are honest and sincere, half a year to a year of correspondance via email and phone can be extremely intimate. And I don't mean that in a sexual way. After the first couple months of the "I like this...what do you like?" sort of emails, two sincere people who feel a connection of friendship, curiosity, and attraction can talk to each other with surprising frankness and depth, because the medium combines the intimacy of a long-term friendship with the comfort of being able to collect one's thoughts without any pressure. How many boyfriend/girlfriend relationships end after six months? In person, with red-hot chemistry, hormones often make us find 'cute' some characteristics that in a year we might find absolutely repulsive...plus we're often afraid of offending someone, and still a little guarded. Through correspondance, I have gotten into depths of my personality that took me twice as long with my previous long-term relationship.

Letters have a romantic power that most people have forgotten in this day and age. Have you ever wanted to tell a special someone about something, only to cut it short because you think they aren't entirely interested, or you forget some of the details, or guard yourself for one reason or another? IF (and that's a big if) you're willing to be open, sincere, and genuine, letters give you the time and space to show someone more sides of yourself than you might when talking to any one person.

Besides, in America, there are all kinds of relationships which start HOT HOT HOT and heavy, end up in marriage within 3-5 months, and then end up in divorce within 2 years because of emotional irresponsibility, poor judgement, and the feeling that you misjudged the character of the person with whom you entered the marital contract. In other words, there's nothing supporting the idea that the standard American romantic pattern is a sucessful one...in fact, it has worse odds than most Las Vegas casino games. I certainly see nothing so grand about it for the long haul that makes it any better than a sincere, deep emotional and intellectual exchange of thoughts, COMBINED with the eventual multiple visits to charge the all-powerful sex drive.

Regarding some other points brought up on this thread --

I am 28 years old, and I became involved with my Ukranian girlfriend with what started almost as a lark -- I was looking on the internet for friends in general, as I had just moved to a new town. Since I travel more than once every year, I contacted a few people overseas, including a Ukranian girl. We really clicked very very well, and people can think what they want, but I think she's a gem and I wouldn't trade the last six months for anything, even if we don't get married eventually. In this modern age, when travel to any part of the world is only a day or two away, why do people criticize me for considering becoming involved with a foreign woman? Why do people criticize me for finding any girlfriend on the internet? Many, MANY people have entered very rewarding relationships via the internet pr brick-and-mortar dating agencies, foreign or domestic, and there's certainly nothing to say that dating someone you meet online is any less sucessful than dating someone you meet at work, or in a bar, or in the gym, or whatever. It's just one more way of meeting someone, and you have a lot more options than before. I think people have a set idea of some piggish old american man drooling over some young Ukranian flower just because of a small demographic that has been overplayed in the media because of some egregious examples. Sorry, but I think part of it is people being afraid of new ideas, people being scared of the internet, and people being zenophobic in general. Yeah, there are major risks, including predatory men and scamming, gold-digging women...but please, can anyone say in honesty that such things are less likely to happen just because the person you're dating is in your same zip code?

When it comes down to it, I'm a young guy whose dated a few girls, had one long relationship that was mostly very good, and has absolutely no bad feelings about American women AT ALL. I'm just a guy, and my girlfriend's just a girl...we click...we make each other laugh...she has no false pretenses about my modest monetary situation, and if anything I've probably emphasized my bad habits just so she won't have any bad surprises. We like each other, we forgive each other's faults, and I am preparing to spend a month with her in her country so we can see if we're good together. And that's all...I have yet to see any relationship in this stage which has any greater or fewer risks ahead of it.

[Edited by elegua on 12th May 2002 at 13:28]
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  #18 (permalink)  
Old 12th May 2002, 16:56
forest forest is offline
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Elegua, very well put,I apologise if I caused offence. I must move with the times, good luck to your romance
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  #19 (permalink)  
Old 12th May 2002, 17:23
SweetNovember SweetNovember is offline
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Re: partially agree

Quote:
Originally posted by elegua


Through correspondance, I have gotten into depths of my personality that took me twice as long with my previous long-term relationship.

****************

When it comes down to it, I'm a young guy whose dated a few girls, had one long relationship that was mostly very good, and has absolutely no bad feelings about American women AT ALL. I'm just a guy, and my girlfriend's just a girl...we click...we make each other laugh...she has no false pretenses about my modest monetary situation, and if anything I've probably emphasized my bad habits just so she won't have any bad surprises. We like each other, we forgive each other's faults, and I am preparing to spend a month with her in her country so we can see if we're good together. And that's all...I have yet to see any relationship in this stage which has any greater or fewer risks ahead of it.

[Edited by elegua on 12th May 2002 at 13:28]
Elegua, everything you say about the internet I certainly agree with. The only problem is you never know who is on the other side of the line. You don't know the culture, you don't know the person's circumstances. With all my heart I wish you hapiness. If your girlfriend is who you think she is, you might just be the luckiest man on earth. You say you've got modest means? Well, to her it still may seem like mountains of gold.
Do you know what it is to have running water only 2 hours a day? Have you ever survived an East European winter without heating? Do you have an alcoholic father that you can't afford to move away from? Do you know what it is to live without hope? Well, many Ukrainian women do,... and many don't - I don't want to make the situation here seem too dire.

I know you are in love, so my words of caution will probably be lost on you. I'll try anyways, just because I am in a very good position to give you an insight on the other side - I am a Ukrainian woman living in Ukraine. Like every other Ukrainian woman, I am a skilled surviver - it comes naturally when you live in a country as harsh as Ukraine. One of the most basic survival skills here is manipulation. Starting from when she is a teenager every Ukrainian is taught that her success in life depends on how well she learns to manipulate men. Want to move out from your parent's place? Great! Find yourself a guy who lives alone. You want to pass an exam without cramming nights long? Put on a mini-skirt and a revealing tank top. Look the professor straight into the eyes and and use your tongue to water your lips to demonstrate nervousness. We are tought to dress, walk, and talk in ways that make men loose their minds. Because it's when he's head over heals in love with you that you've got him in your fist. Always tell the guy what he wants to hear. Outguess his expectations of you. Never forget all men are suckers.
You are young, she might be actually attracted to you, so it's not impossible that your relationship with the girl you love will be a long and happy one. It is also not impossible that she is young too and she thinks 5 years is not a long time to wait till she gets her greencard and can finally divorce you. There are sindicates of fresh and not so fresh Russian/Ukrainian divorcees in the States. They provide legal advice, emotional support and entertaining company. I know a woman who divorced her husband and took a half of his Vermont estate with her. If you don't have much, she'll just take 5 years of your life. I'm sure you are going to enjoy them, 'cause there is nothing sweeter than a truely manipulating Ukrainian woman. Use your own judgement. I wish you luck.
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  #20 (permalink)  
Old 12th May 2002, 22:58
Ulysses Ulysses is offline
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Re: Re: partially agree

I knew this girl and she had a rich boyfriend, and several other ones on the side (her playtoys I guess). She's marrying the rich guy and he has not clue what she's been doing for 3-4 years...


Quote:
Originally posted by SweetNovember

I know you are in love, so my words of caution will probably be lost on you. I'll try anyways, just because I am in a very good position to give you an insight on the other side - I am a Ukrainian woman living in Ukraine. Like every other Ukrainian woman, I am a skilled surviver - it comes naturally when you live in a country as harsh as Ukraine. One of the most basic survival skills here is manipulation. Starting from when she is a teenager every Ukrainian is taught that her success in life depends on how well she learns to manipulate men. Want to move out from your parent's place? Great! Find yourself a guy who lives alone. You want to pass an exam without cramming nights long? Put on a mini-skirt and a revealing tank top. Look the professor straight into the eyes and and use your tongue to water your lips to demonstrate nervousness. We are tought to dress, walk, and talk in ways that make men loose their minds. Because it's when he's head over heals in love with you that you've got him in your fist. Always tell the guy what he wants to hear. Outguess his expectations of you. Never forget all men are suckers. ...there is nothing sweeter than a truely manipulating Ukrainian woman. Use your own judgement. I wish you luck.
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  #21 (permalink)  
Old 13th May 2002, 08:51
elegua elegua is offline
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thanks, SweetNovember

Even though I might be in love or close to it, your advice and insight is greatly appreciated. Everything you've mentioned are things I've thought about many times, and I still think about it every day. And I'll also confess- I am a romantic, absolutely. This has gotten me into trouble in the past, and I have no doubt my idealism will have me rolling across rough roads in the future...I'm just trying my best to avoid the big walls I know that I can be manipulated...perhaps that's my only defense against manipulation

If I put away my grand dreams, I could not predict whether or not, six months from now, I'll be back online here, writing my 'horror story.' But right now, my path is where my heart leads me, and all I can hope is that my head keeps repeating your words of advice as I travel to Ukraine to see my girlfriend, and spend some time with her parents. Fortunately, both her parents are still together, and observing their relationship will hopefully give me a bit of insight into Natasha's character and personal views on relationships...she is very excited about me meeting her parents, grandmother, and sister. I'm taking this as a good sign, but of course only time will tell.

Are my odds worse pursuing this relationship versus pursuing one with a local lady? Maybe...I just honestly don't know. At this point, I'm jumping into the deep end...the flotation device I always keep handy might help against rough waves, but only good fortune can keep me from the sharks.

And to forest -- my apologies if I seemed defensive. Your statement didn't offend me, and if I seemed at all brash in my reply it's only because I am often criticized for my current romantic aspirations, mostly from people who still harbor old Cold War suspicions about 'those Russians.'
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