Freedom is not Free !

[MrNatural]

Well, duh!... It is a basic economic fact that the value of anything (or everything) is measured by the price people are willing to pay for it. So, we will pay more for the things we value highly. Surely there can be no disagreement on this.

There is nothing in the Universe that MrNatural values more highly than freedom. He even values it more than his own life and would gladly die for the cause of freedom. How many people, from all over the globe, have died for the cause of freedom? In just the last one hundred years? Millions of Ukrainians died for it on two fronts (Hitler AND Stalin).

The dear reader may or may not be aware that here in America, for a majority of people, the value of freedom has dropped to historic lows (as indicated by the price they are willing to pay for it). I would like your opinion on why you think this has happened.

NOTE: Not if but why. If you doubt that this has happened you should start another string.

[Foggy]

Just a quick, off-the-cuff response to an excellent question: I think we have had it too good. We take freedom for granted, and are willing to sell it cheaply.

People (I don't mean you, my friend!) say they would "die for freedom" but then don't LIVE in such a way as to preserve it.

Is a contradiction!

FOG

[This message has been edited by Foggy (edited 16 March 2000).]

[MrNatural]

Thanks for the reply Fog ! I am in total agreement.

I forgot to tell why MrNatural values freedom so highly. For two reasons; one practical, one aesthetic.

The practical: It works!
The aesthetic: The Cosmic Master(ette) wills it

[B_Ungaro]

Greetings MrNatural,
In recent history we can view two extremes
when we talk about FREEDOM.
1. The CCCP allowed few individual freedoms.
Most of the rights and freedoms were allocated to society as a whole.
2. In the USA individuals have most of the freedoms and society has few. It has reached a point where disorganization is often considered as a form of freedom. Because of disoragnization, we have arrived at a point
where crime is rampant, you have to barricade yourself in your home. Drug abuse is out of hand. 5000 children die every year do to gun related accidents. People have become slaves of the economy. Religous freedom is well on its way of becoming religous opression and even terror. To be honest, I could do without some of these so called freedoms.
Freedom is great as long as it is not abused or misused. In the USA we are beyond that point.

[MrNatural2]

Greetings B.Ungaro and Fog. Thanks for the reply. I can already see that we shall have some very interesting discussions. I look forward to it.

Ungaro, I don't really follow your argument. You lost me on "disorganization."

Everything has its' downside and freedom is no exception.

You mentioned the crime problem in our country. Crime is OUT OF HAND because the government does not respect our constitution and the freedoms it guarantees. I'll be short: If drugs were legalized there would be precious little crime in America. Virtually none, in my opinion. Like Will Rogers said, "the best way to deal with crime would be to legalize it and tax it out of business."

I cannot do justice to your argument in the little time I have right now. Tomorrow I promise a thorough rebuttal.

[B_Ungaro]

Greetings MrNatural,
I was glad to read your partial rebuttal. To help you further understand my view I offer this little addendum:
We need enough Government to protect our common interest and our common values. Currently in the USA we do not have a Government that is able to do that. Perhaps now you will understand my reference to DISORGANIZATION.

[observer58]

Mr natural 2,
Good topic.
Will Rogers statement is flawed though. To legalize crime and then tax it out of buisness wont work. It will only create more crime to support the other crime that is being taxed. Thus creating a never ending vicious circle. The other side of that coin is that I know what you mean.
Have a great day.

John