NONSON's RELIGIOUS HATRED & RACIAL STEREOTYPES HAVE NO PLACE HERE. HEOUTTA BE EXPELLE

[Stephen_Bailey]

I am a Sinner !! I'm no Angel - BUT - I respect others of a different skin-colour, nationality, sexual orientation, ethnicity & religion to my own.

I think this character NONSON is abusing this site to spread hatred - and his obscene sexual references go beyond the limits we (as users of Ukraine.com) should accept.

The rest of us are here to communicate with each other, share opinions and even (maybe)learn from other.

I wouldn't want to see anybody's kids exposed to the filth
NONSON is trying to propogate.
This guy is poisoning OUR (family!) site and ought to be kicked off it.
What do YOU think ????

Regards to (almost) all,

S.B.

[steve_vlasenko]

Stephen,

As a firm support of the Blue Ribbon, free speech on the internet, I'm absolutely behind Nonson. To you he's very offensive to me he ain't, he's expressing his opinions whether you like them or not.

I find the 90% of what the religious people say on the board deeply offensive to my moral perspective, I argue with them and what's more will argue with anyone whose trying to take away there right to express their opinions.

What I notice as interesting is no one got on their high horse over the attacks on the fundamental Christians. I wonder why? I was as guilty as the next person of calling them Jesus-Nazis, deeply offensive to them, but no one looked to kick Bill, Lippy, and I off the board.

When people try to sensor someone else they tend to have an agenda themselves, i.e. Stalin and Hitler.

Take Care.

Vlas.

[Stephen_Bailey]

Steve,

Thanks for that.
( Hell! That was a challenging message )

Look. I know a Turkish guy up here who owns a Kebab shop.
You couldn't wish to meet a more decent bloke.

Last year he was beaten-up and his business was trashed by 2 local villains. At their trial, the defence was that they'd been "whipped-up" by anti-Turkish statements in the newspapers (yes, The Sun).
Of course they got sent to jail, but this WAS accepted as "mitigating circumstances".

You're absolutely right; people who want to censor other people's opinions almost always have an "agenda" and it's nearly always an unhealthy one. But, there's a big difference between an opinion (backed up by facts) and the messages of hate which Nonson specialises in.

If you read through his material you'll notice something (apart from the racism). WHENEVER he gets into an argument with 'me' or Kaz or anyone else and cannot reason his way out of it - he accuses us of enjoying sexual acts with other men. Why?
The only reason I can think of is that homosexuality is the thing which most offends HIM.

I'm sure we could both knock-off 20,000 word dissertations on the subject of Censorship; but I'm more interested to know what other people (yourself included) feel about this man's statements.

Steve. If you could go back in time 70 years (& had the power); would YOU have "censored" Adolf Hitler?

Here's a little poem by Bertold Brecht. It's also the reason why I think people SHOULD oppose characters like Nonson:

" First they came for the Communists
And I did nothing, because I wasn't a Communist.
Then they came for the Trade Unionists
And I did nothing, because I wasn't a trade Unionist
Then they came for the Jews
And I did nothing, because I wasn't a Jew
Finally, they came for Me. "

Who knows? Maybe, somewhere, there's a future Hitler, sat in a lonely bed-sit & devouring every word Nonson types?

Thanks for your message.

S.B.

[Nonson]

Vlas,

Ain't it strange the extremes that bigots will go to cover their failures as decent human beings?

It is supposedly intelligent beings like S. Bailey that is in no small way the reason for me removing my *collar* and joining the fight against such educated idiocy.

After I have had time to reflect I will take Mr?s? Bailey apart, piece by corrupt piece, and we shall see what makes this pseudo-genius (a.k.a. a Hitlerian) tick.

Nonson
2.21.01

[steve_vlasenko]

Steve, Hi.

Hmm ???

My 'field' is Sociology. Maybe I ought to be 'ashamed' of that; but I don't have any hang-ups about being White or British.

Here's a spot of verbal Aikido; separating 'the people' from 'the religion' isn't (as you said) my problem. I'm happy to do it!

You're not "Ukrainian"; you're "Steve". Think about it?
Male
British-Ukrainian
Son
Brother
European
Graduate (?) etc.etc. They're all 'labels'


That▓s me defo. However, you can't judge all diaspora (I hate that word) Ukies from your opinions of me. Just because I▓m just about the most fantastic person in the world doesn▓t indicate that all Ukies are.

You know as well as I do that you can't reason with people if they're sticking to a 'party line' of ANY kind.

If you disagree then it▓s up to you to call it a day, agree to disagree, or continue to argue the point.

I absolutely agree with you that there are statements in the Koran which (if taken literally) indicate that muslims should be hostile towards christians and that it's perfectly ok to kill a person who insults The prophet.

Therefore, it▓s doctrinally perverse.

Imagine for a minute YOU are a "Muslim Extremist" and I'm having an argument with you.
My point is; I don't give a f*** what it says in this holy book. I want to know what YOU think.

Do you understand? ( I'm sure you do )
You can't argue or reason with the Koran or the Bible. They're there in black-and-white & utterly unchanging & unchangeable. They can't think or speak; people CAN.

However, you can take a stand , thereby showing those oppressed by Islam or what ever that they are not alone

My belief is, 'we' make all kinds of problems for ourselves by not recognising a lot of what we "think" is actually only what we THINK we ought to think.

That▓s as maybe, however are you asking that I and other opponents of fascism hold our tongues, don▓t voice our opinions because we are not the masters of all knowledge?
Ok. More role-play You're still a "Muslim Extremist" by the way. Now, imagine you suddenly turn into a computer.
If I could remove the "Muslim" CD-rom the 'computer' would still work, but what came out of it would be quite different. yes ?

That's what I'm getting at. You may disagree with me, but I think it's VITAL to "separate the people from the religion".
As it is to separate the religion from the people

( By the way, British jails are pretty disgusting too )

See ya soon.

S.B.
You seem to be under the impression that all the opponents of Islam are Christians, I▓m afraid that ain▓t the case. I▓ve been arguing on this site for some time now and you▓ll find that most of the people who are against Islam are against Christianity.

The question I always ask Muslims is why do all other religions hate Islam more than any other?

Get your self down to a Sikh Temple and ask those chaps about the legacy of Islam. ?
Take Care.

Vlas

[Stephen_Bailey]

Steve,

Ta for the message ( naff format though )

Ok. Sikhs and Muslims hate each other (??)
You said I should ask some Sikh chaps about the LEGACY of Islam.

Legacy : " That which is handed down by a predecessor "
( W.H.Smith Mini-dictionary )

Imagine 2 young 'chaps' both living here and now in, oh?,
lets say Stoke-Newington. 1 just happens to be a Muslim and the other just happens to be a Sikh.
I can't think of a single rational reason why these 2 hypothetical chaps should dislike each other. And yet, they probably will.
Why??? because of their PREDECESSORS, their LEGACY.

You're (originally) Ukrainian and my parents are German.
Germany committed atrocities in Ukraine that beggar belief, just 60 years ago. Do you hate me for what my grandparents' generation did to Ukraine? Of course not (I should hope).
Why not ? Please, at least have a short think about it.

I took LippyChick's advice and investigated "Islam In The City". Ok, they seem "extreme" to me. They DO appear to be 'programming' the minds of people to maintain a 'legacy'.
But, it's not fair to criticise Islam 'full-stop' for the actions of a zealous minority.
I've got a Muslim family living a few doors from me. They're bloody nice people (as Tim Nice-But-Dim might say ).
The eldest son (Tariq) has a white girlfriend.
Personally, I reckon this couple are 'the future'.

Here's something he told me recently (not word-for-word, but more or less exact) :
"What pisses me off is that people think all us muslims are nutters - and we're not. It's just that the extreme ones seem to have the biggest mouths. You never hear anything about ordinary Islamic people. We just quietly get on with our lives."

Surely, you can see he's got a point there?

Wouldn't you think it was ridiculous to attack Christianity in general because of the K.K.K.

Have you ever been to Northern Ireland ?? The first time I went there I was surprised at how 'normal' the Protestant people are (even the Orangemen). I honestly thought they'd all be like Ian Paisley.

In one of his more insane statements, Nonson clearly suggests that Muslims have a sexual interest in children.
Now, I ask you, how would 'Tariq' react if he read that?
it's the kind of "free speech" that turns moderate muslims into extremists - and I know you've got the intellect to see this is what Nonson is up to.
His aim is to spread as much hatred and bad feeling as he can and if Islam and 'The West' move even 1mm further apart because of him, he'll feel his life was a success.

S.B.

[steve_vlasenko]

Stephen,

If you want to get in to an argument about linguistics then start another topic, but you'll have to be prepared for some extreme boredom.

May I ask are you a recent graduate or an undergraduate. The reason I ask is you've post some interesting arguments yet you're continually personalising them. My neighbour, my mate, some chap in the chip shop etc. I know a Ukie who is the biggest c**t in the world, however I hope if you met him you'd not reference all Ukies on him.

What I said was goes to the Sikh Temples and ask them about their feelings on Islam and it's legacy.

I don't hate Germans, I'm sitting next to a German right now, but what I do hate are the Nazis and the Neo-Nazis. Young Germans are not responsible for the actions of the parents and in the main they have and continue to forge the process of European social harmony. Sound. That still doesn't prevent me from hating fascism.

Islam in the City Under any other guise would be declared nazi, but as they hide under the flag of Islam we (the British) allow them to canvass in the street. Kaz, who you've defended is a member of said brotherhood of hate.

It's the responsibility of Muslims to get off their arses and show the world that they're not nutters. Germans showed the world that they were not all Nazis. They should condemn the action against Rushtie, the Taliban, the Turkish rape squads, honour killings the list goes on. If your mate refuses, what does that make him? Complicit in the actions? or just a nutter.

I spent quite some time in Ulster in a pervious life and am well aware of that situation and what the Irish are like.

I'm not here to speak for Nonson, other than he has the right to be as offensive to members of Islam in the city etc as he wants to be; especially in an internet forum.

And Islam in the city will bring us closer together.

You know that's the beauty of freedom, we can say and think what we want... you know the rest...

Vlas