Ukraine Forums Community


Go Back   Ukraine.com Discussion Forum > Open Board > Open Board
User Name
Password
Register FAQ Members List Calendar Search Today's Posts Mark Forums Read


Reply
 
LinkBack Thread Tools Search this Thread Rate Thread Display Modes
  #1 (permalink)  
Old 7th August 2008, 15:21
Max_the_Highlander Max_the_Highlander is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 549
Max_the_Highlander is on a distinguished road
The Crisis of Morality and Sex Industry Legalization

The theme I want to touch is slippery and even explosive one… it may damage many thin feelings and I want to bag a pardon right now. I ensure everyone I look at it only from position of a moralist and nobody else. However, the problems of moral health of every civilized society are matter of special care. That’s why the crisis of moral is something worth attention twice because exactly the crisis requires the conscious public reaction and fast solution.

The ties of Ukraine with Europe become stronger, we declare the course on “European civilization” and we tend to perceive these values as something spick and span. However, the illusion rarely coincidences with reality and every luxury wardrobe has its own skeletons inside.

The information about hard sexual exploitation of women and men of Central Europe comes from everywhere… it seem the Europe newcomers gained not only financial and political aid of Brussels but also the complete ruination of traditional social morality. May be some ones will call it the reform. And may be some one will call it the road the civilized paradise. I’m not afraid to be old-fashioned guy so I perceive it exactly as crisis of morality. The opinions are welcome.

But sometimes the manipulation is too obvious and screams like a fishwife. The replacement of values is so artistic that even the most horrible things are given as gain of civilization. As example of what I mean I will take the article from website PolishMarriage.org which is named “Polish Escort in Poland and in the World”.

After reading this I was positively in shock… I appreciate its glamorous skilled style but the sense stunned me much. I think it is worth the closest attention because it seems as moral virus which distorted the moral values to trash hiding the ruination under fat layer of charm.
Polish Escort in Poland and in the World

What is the oldest profession on Earth? Although, one cannot be totally sure, I have my suspicions. It is a profession without boundaries that does not require any special equipment from its practitioner, except for the natural one. Polish, Russian, American... -- any girl can do it, although, it does not mean she should; on the contrary, our society frowns at the sex workers (called "escorts"), although, they have a role to play.

The Americans had their Madame Alex, the Beverly Hills Madam, French had their Mata-Hari, the English the model Christine Keeler and their Profumo-affair, the Italian's the (in)famous porn star Cicciolina, a respected member of Parliament! Why should not the Polish escorts behave in a similar vein, smile?

With the acceptance of the new East European members to the E.U., there are new players on the turf. The sex industry is the new export branch of many a country and Poland is one of the leading exporters, as well as an equal opportunity employer, in this respect. Not only do they have their own stables of escort madams, they also allow foreign ladies of night to come for guest appearances. Less fortunate (in economic sense) ladies of Russia and Rumania, to name just two more obvious examples, come to visit Warsaw and at the same time offer (paid) sampling of their "exotic" sex wares at the back of the visiting busses. At the same time the Polish girls visit Stockholm, Berlin, Paris and London, to name just a few places... What a charming atmosphere of international cooperation! What an example for the U.N. to follow.

The connoisseurs - the man in the know - maintain, that the Polish girl is something special - many "experts" do believe that the French girl do not wash often enough, the Rumanian are too obvious, while the Russian are too business-minded. The Polish woman, on the other hand (no matter if she is an escort or not), offers a mix of a courtesan, wife, lover and sweet Madonna, effortlessly gliding between the roles. One moment she is the fallen lady, the next, after a night of passionate lovemaking, she'll start cooking "bigos", the Polish national food of sauerkraut and meat, for her impromptu lover. Ah, the smell of the fresh "bigos" after a night of tireless "amore". No man has as yet been created that could say no to such a combined proposition. No wonder the single Polish girls are in high demands in all the capitals of the world, as displayed on the perfume labels: Warsaw - Paris - London - New York.

The Polish escort is both famous and internationally recognized; sinful, yet often religious; without any moral limits, yet still childishly innocent (although, at the same time very business-minded). Ah, the incomparable Slavic beauty of a young Polish girl with linen-colored hair and her strong Polish accent, when offering her charms in the streets and hotels of the European metropolises (as if any other language was needed besides the language of "amore").

How do the young Polish catholic beauties manage to negotiate unsolicited sex with their religion is anyone's guess, but one thing is certain that the church has a long and forgiving tradition of dealing with fallen ladies. Already Jesus forgave the Biblical escort (I believe the less modern "harlot" was used) Maria Magdalene, as well as an adulterous woman, so who am I to throw the first stone?

Obviously, the sin of flesh in the Biblical times was not as grave as the moral guardians of today would like us to believe. Selling one's body for money (being an escort), thus, has a long tradition and the Polish escorts working the streets of the Western capitals have nothing to be ashamed of.

In fact, my belief is, that the call girl, cocotte, hooker, hustler, streetwalker, tart, woman on the game (just a linguistic exercise), etc. has an important social role to play. A good question is, why the opposite is not the case (there are rare exceptions to the rule), why the men are not walking the street, offering their services to those in need. Obviously, the demand is for female services only and this is just the human nature. The Polish (or of any other nationality) escort is really innocent of any crime; on the contrary she provides water to the thirsty, food to the starving (you know what I mean). The poor man - his destiny being to chase the skirts that all seem to be getting away. Lucky women that can do without.

This is really a very common market situation and, as such, should be a great subject for an advanced research in the area of market economics. What happens if the demand (for sex services) is higher that the supply and vice versa? The prices fall and the escorts start to circulate to other more lucrative places, which brings us to the start of the discussion. The escorts from Poland on their way to Paris, the Russian and Rumanian replacements to Warsaw, the Thai (?) ladies to Moscow. A good question is what happens in Bangkok. Do the prices go up and the movement of the ladies of night starts to turn in the opposite direction?

Escorts are in high demand, which shows that 1) many men are in need, 2) that there is a lot of money around and 3) that there are many ladies interested in making "easy" money. Date with a girl that has a price? Why not if for a reasonable price she can provide the services you need? Some like them very young, teenagers and already spoiled, others want them innocent, straight from the school, although, asking for virgins in this business is to ask too much.

Another question is if this is dating in the proper meaning of the word, when the outcome of the date is known in the advance, and the only thing that is uncertain is the price. Still, the target, in most cases, justifies the means and all well that ends well.

As somebody pointed out: If there were no masculine sex, the whole sex problem would not exist. But that - maybe not the worst alternative- would also mean the end of the human race.
Reply With Quote
  #2 (permalink)  
Old 7th August 2008, 15:23
Max_the_Highlander Max_the_Highlander is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 549
Max_the_Highlander is on a distinguished road
My first though after reading the article was I need to make additional research and to check the things. Does this keynote article really reflect the moods and real life affairs? On the one of Polish forums I found the discussion which broke my last hopes. I will give it in much softened variant which reproduces the sense without original rude shade.

“I was just speaking with an acquaintance from work who returned from vacation in Poland, and he told me about escorts in Poland. Specifically that for about $40 he had relations with a great looking girl. I find this hard to believe…has anyone had experience that would support or disprove this? Is it even legal? I’m just having a hard time believing this.”

“Legal, yes.. cheap, not at all from my understanding.”

“Roksa.pl/len/anonse.php… yes it is legal business in Poland ... prices are there.”

“Prostitution is legal?!”

”It is legal for girl to have relations for money. It is illegal for 3rd person to take profits from this activity (pimps are illegal). So the small "businesses" are preferred by Polish laws.”

“I don't think I should open this link with the kids in the room, what do you think?”

“Welcome in Europe...”

Yes, for justice, we have half-legal escort businesses of that kind in Ukraine which balance between criminal prohibition and offering pseudo-business or pseudo-medical “services”. As usually legal agencies do not bill such doubtful underwater activities and most often they are offered by illegal structures.

Anyway nobody ever could call them “the sign of European mentality” or describe in decent society as any special national advantage. It’s social disaster and just. We can talk, we can not to, but this is problem which covers the connected people with shame.

In the beginning of this post I said Ukraine keeps direction on Europe and tends to see the European affairs too idealistically. We tend to look for bigger values then we have here and now. However the crisis of morality described on example of a typical Central European country sheds the new light. In fact, it shows the public opinion may treat the sexual exploitation not only as legal but also as socially acceptable activity.

That’s why I want to ask question witch troubles me much after my discoveries.

Won’t the Ukrainian eager of more morally perfect society be replaced by blatant sexual exploitation of Ukrainian girls and women?
Reply With Quote
  #3 (permalink)  
Old 8th August 2008, 03:24
Kathy Kathy is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,331
Kathy has a spectacular aura aboutKathy has a spectacular aura aboutKathy has a spectacular aura about
I think the article is nothing more than "advertising". Do you really believe a prostitute cooks breakfast for a client? Or that a john (slang for a man who hires prostitutes) is her "lover"? There is no love in these transactions. The article is about selling a fantasy to a certain level of (stupid) males. Much like all the Ukrainian/Russian bridesites promising the "perfect woman".

Nevertheless, you have touched upon an interesting subject.

A few weeks ago, my husband came from the computer in disgust. He had read an article in a Ukrainian paper which bragged about the fact that Ukrainian prostitutes generated $700 million euros in income. "What is happening when our papers brag about the income prostitutes generate?" he asked. Nothing about Ukraine surprises him, but he is always very disturbed by these incidents, particularly because he remembers, as a child, when divorces were so rare and scandalous, they were announced and published in the newspaper.

Max, I don't think this is a Central European or even a European problem. Nor a new problem (Victorian morality was partly a response to rampant prostitution in England.) This is a worldwide problem. Even where prostitution is illegal, it exists, and women and children are coerced into prostitution. I don't think there is a country where this does not exist. But, it is a huge problem in Ukraine and Moldova. I don't know what the answer is.

Ukrainian women and children are being exploited. In the case of children, I have read many stories of Western pedophiles visiting Ukraine to exploit children, as it is more difficult to do this undetected in Europe. Other places, such as the Czech Republic, turn a blind eye to German pedophiles coming to buy children. For them, it is profitable.

Sometimes, women choose this life, and that is their choice. Sometimes, women are forced into this, very often, by other Ukrainians. In some ways, it is a lack of a moral compass, the remnants of homo Sovieticus, the individuals built by a society that, for decades was spiritually dead, where the existence of the soul was officially denied. This, coupled with endemic corruption, makes predatory behaviour easy. Also, don't think that this is something new. My husband told me of seeing this in Russia in the 1970's (there was even a district in Leningrad called "Little Saigon" where pedophiles could go to pick up a boy or girl for a night, usually young teens who ran away from alcoholic homes), and that there were whole regions in Kyiv for hooking up for casual, or even anonymous sex. I'm sure that exists here, too, and probably has for decades.

In making the above observations, I do want to note that some posters here have in the past accused me of calling Ukraine the "land of horrors". This is not my intent, nor my belief. It is my deepest desire that these things be resolved, and that Ukrainians enjoy the prosperity and freedoms they deserve. But it is important to look at a society's problems and confront them if they are to be solved. I can't comment on Poland, as I don't know what is happening there. Perhaps Michael or Zbyszek can. However, worldwide, Ukraine is gaining a reputation as a sex tourist destination. It saddens me because it cheapens life and Ukrainians don't deserve this. But, this can only be solved by Ukrainians. As Ukraine is a democracy, if enough Ukrainians protest this, laws can be enacted to stop this. But, there has to be a concerted effort, and an understanding of who is profiting from this.
Reply With Quote
  #4 (permalink)  
Old 8th August 2008, 03:48
Kathy Kathy is offline
Super Moderator
 
Join Date: Aug 2002
Posts: 1,331
Kathy has a spectacular aura aboutKathy has a spectacular aura aboutKathy has a spectacular aura about
Here is a link I found on human trafficking.

Human Trafficking & Modern-day Slavery - Ukraine

Though not an issue of the morality Max raised, it is an issue on the morality of the world. There are many Ukrainians working as slaves across Europe and the Middle East, where they are promised jobs, but not pay. This includes many men.
Reply With Quote
  #5 (permalink)  
Old 8th August 2008, 04:46
sjoyce sjoyce is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 61
sjoyce is on a distinguished road
I have just finished reading "The Natashas" by Victor Malarek. It is about the sex trade around the world, where young girls or boys, fresh out of orphanages are offered jobs and sold all over Europe & the middle East. Victor even tells of a peacekeeper buying a girl for $5,000.00 for his use and pleasure while serving in Europe. A must read if this business is of any concern for the innocents that get caught up in the ugly net.
Reply With Quote
  #6 (permalink)  
Old 8th August 2008, 04:51
sjoyce sjoyce is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Mar 2008
Posts: 61
sjoyce is on a distinguished road
Thanks Kathy for the above web site on human trafficking.
Reply With Quote
  #7 (permalink)  
Old 8th August 2008, 07:53
Max_the_Highlander Max_the_Highlander is offline
Registered User
 
Join Date: Nov 2005
Posts: 549
Max_the_Highlander is on a distinguished road
Kathy, unfortunately this article is not advertising, this is keynote document, the expression of problem relation. The site is devoted to marriage and sex affairs and offers only English-Polish translations from married couple. On the whole it looks like educational site. So it's not commerce of any kind, I would define it's as manifesto.

I was positively shocked by bold double standards which somehow have been implemented even to international escorts.

And btw there is big difference between bride sites and escorts on the streets of "Paris - London - New York" which are treated poetically.

My point is that blatant sexual exploitation is considered in Central Europe as acceptable activity, the norm of everyday life, so I see here the obvious crisis of morality. Yes we have problems with "escorts" and prostitution in Ukraine, I can't state opposite. However, this is illegal and this is not socially acceptable. While we cant fight it finally, the public opinion treats it extreme negatively and of course no one being of sound mind would put the analogies between the escort and "forgiving traditions of church" etc...

I attach a photo from demonstration of protest in Kyiv. Young guys and girls decidedly protest exactly against turning Ukraine into "sex tourist destination".
Attached Thumbnails
crisis-morality-sex-industry-legalization-6053-728139.jpg  
Reply With Quote
Reply


Thread Tools Search this Thread
Search this Thread:

Advanced Search
Display Modes Rate This Thread
Rate This Thread:

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On
Forum Jump



All times are GMT +1. The time now is 02:22.

All Rights Reserved © 1995 - | NewMedia Holdings, Inc.. The Ukraine Channel is operated under license to Paley Media, Inc. which is solely responsible for its content, unless expressly provided otherwise. All trademarks and web sites that appear throughout this site are the property of their respective owners. No part of this site shall be reproduced, copied, or otherwise distributed without the express, written consent of Paley Media, Inc. This site is not affiliated with any government entity associated with a name similar to the site domain name.

Powered by vBulletin® Version 3.7.2
Copyright ©2000 - 2008, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
Content Relevant URLs by vBSEO 3.0.0 RC4 © 2006, Crawlability, Inc.