Ogniem i mieczem

[Petro_moskal]

How many have seen this move?

[Serhii]

I have seen the movie and read the book by Henrik Senkievich which it is based on. Nothing special - typical Polish chauvunistic propaganda. It is very far from real history as well as another one ( Potop - Flood) from this row.

And thank you very much for ever lasting reminder about our great victory over totalitarian fascists regime which together with Stalinists dictatorship were the greatest disasters of 20 century.

[Petro_moskal]

Actually, I thought the movie was quite good. And I'm sure you were there in the 17th century and can tell us all about the "real" history of the matter.

Nothing special - typical Polish chauvunistic propaganda

Examples?

And thank you very much for ever lasting reminder about our great victory over totalitarian fascists regime

Oh, no problem. People need to remember who and when in the long run ensured their freedom (ignoring the 40 postwar years in Eastern Europe).

which together with Stalinists dictatorship were the greatest disasters of 20 century.

Agreed.

[Serhii]

Oh my, for sure movies are made perfectly and are just excellent. I think Jerzy Hofman is the best film director in Europe. He literally followed a plot of novel , perhaps he even agrees with it ( I am not sure ). Right now he is going to make a movie about Ukraine , he admires our endless steppes and their eternal beauty. I wish him good luck.

It would be strange if we , the Ukrainians , learn our history from Polish ( or Russian in your case ) chauvinistic sources . We did not live in that terrible times , but our ancestors did. We still have vivid so called living memory -our folk ballads , songs ( dumy ), etc. You even do not know how deeply those events are rooted in people▓s memory. Every year thousands of people from all Ukraine gather in the fields of Berestechko to honor memory of our heroes √ Cossacks and their leaders who fought with Polacks . This year more then 25 thousands attended memorial events .

That▓s is our glory, pain and understanding of history. You ( they) can say anything you want.
Those films are made for amusement , to earn some money , etc. They are excellent for such purpose. You have the same example with the movie ▒Piotr 1▓ ( Peter the Great ). Soviet baron Alexei Tolstoi several times rewrote his novel in order to please Stalin the best. The movie has nothing to do with reality - pure Russian Stalinists propaganda . But what excellent actors play in it ! It is a real masterpiece in nomination ┘. of fantasy ( like Ogniem I mieczem, Potop and million other weaker ones).

[Petro_moskal]

But what, specifically, was inaccurate about Ogniem i mieczem? Aside from the little Skrzetuski-Bohun-Helena love triangle.

[Serhii]

First I have to say that Henrik Senkiewicz▓s attitude towards all Ukrainian √ Polish relations is well known and have been discussed widely ( including this site ).

Let me start with yesterday▓s news from TV bulletin . People form around the Pyliavka river region celebrated an anniversary of great battle between Ukr and Pol troops in the mid 50s of 17 century. Thousands came to remember and mark that famous victory. After the battle all Polacks were nicknamed ▒ pyliavchyky▓ for a long time. Local people told yesterday that in 17 century people covered the road by which Ukrainians came from the battle with embroidered towels . Orthodox priests together with all people welcomed and praised them.

If you take any descriptions of such events from Senkiewicz▓s novel ( or movies based on it) you will see bloody Ukr bandits who tortured honest and glorious Pol nobles ( magnates) and Catholic priests . That is a general remark which can be easily applied everywhere in that production. Maybe you , foreigner, do not notice it , but for us it is clear.

We had a long discussion concerning Bohdan Stupka▓s and other Ukr actors starring at that film. Nobody takes those movies seriously as a historical document, just fantasy , amusement , successful effort to revive almost dead Polish cinema industry.

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Petro_moskal
How many have seen this move?

Petro, as it comes Henryk Sienkiewicz, I just must say a little because he is absolutely my idol. I read Serhii's opinion and I realize how Ukrainian sensitivity may differ much from a Polish one but we should remeber that Sienkiewicz is a Nobel prize winner (Quo Vadis 1905). He also visited North America and wrote many fine novels from there like "The Lighthouse Keeper" that little masterpiece which I absolutely love. Petro, please read it, it is my recommendation.
http://www.ukraine.com/forums/showth...?threadid=4411
I posted its complete text in this forum a few years ago.

I think Serhii does not realize how serious historic research Sienkiewicz had to do before writing any historic novel. His point of view was fiercely disputed by his less talented Polish contemporaries like Boleslaw Prus. "The Teutonic Knights" is Sienkiewicz's most appreciated novel [by the literary critics].
I would question the term Serhii used: "chauvinistic". Neither Shevchenko nor Sienkiewicz did not displayed this quality. They were both two great to lower to chauvinism.
"Taras Bulba" is not chauvinistic either.

Now, about the film... There is some politics behind the story of making this particular film. It does not strictly follow the novel and I can give the link the "The Day" Ukrainian Internet magazine opinion when the Ukrainian reviewer says: I never felt offended when watching this film in the Kyiv cinema.

..and many thanks Petro for remembering the film which my family in America liked so much that they wore the tape and I had to buy them the DVD version! [they do not speak Polish]. The best contemporary Polish historians like Pawel Jasienica [ often quoted by a Russian historian Mikhail Heller] appreciate Sienkiewicz's historic knowledge even more than XIXth century historian Michal Bobrzynski.

[Edited by Zbyszek on 27th September 2005 at 23:23]