Correct Grammar

[bliskucha]

There's something about Ukrainian grammar I don't understand. I understand that to say "at her" is "na neyee." But, why isn't it "na nee," because the preposition "na" isn't genitive. But the pronoun "nayee" is. The proposition "na" is either the accusative or locative case.

Also to say "her brother" is "yeeyee brat." But if I want to say "for her brother" someone told me you would say "dlya yeeyee brata." But again, it seems to be mixing up cases. Why wouldn't it be "dlya nayee brata"? Because in the genitive case, when certian prepositions are used in the genitive case, there are certain pronouns one uses.
So to conclude, I'm a bit mixed up because my language books say one thing, and in usage I seem to see another thing. That the propositions of one case are being used with the pronouns of another. Anyone out there who can help me, thank you and doozhe doozhe dyakooyoo!!

[bliskucha]

Kathy,

Thanks for your response. You helped me with the first part, regarding possession. But regarding the part concerning "at her," some of my transliteraton was incorrect. I simply don't understand why "at her" uses a non-genitive preposition with a genitive pronoun. I guess that's just the way it is though.

Thanks again Kathy, you always help me!

Sonia in New York

[Xristya]

Hi - hope this helps a little, because I can't explain
it from the grammatical perspective, but rather from the
speaking perspective (I was born in America and taught
Ukrainian by my parents who came from Ukraine a few months
before I was born. I'm a poet and so often my grasp of the
language is intuitive rather than academic, but it may still help). If you are saying "Look at her" in Ukrainian
it would be "Divisha na neyee." However actually I think
that's a lot more like "Look UPON her", in true translation. If you wanted to say "Throw it to her" (as in, say, a ball) you would say "Kin do neyee" ("do" meaning "to" rather than "on"). Does this help in any way?
Or is it one of those paradoxes similar to English spelling
(like the word "school")? -- Xristya

[Serhii]

Xristya,
I am afraid the phrase 'Kin do neji' ( 'Throw it to her')has a little bit another meaning. For sure I can ' kynuty mjach do neji' ( imperative -'kyn mjach do neji') , but it will mean only 'to thwow ball in her direction ' ( = doesn't mean she will catch the ball. The ball will simply moving to where she stands . ) If i want her to catch the ball ( or someone to throw the ball in order someone else could catch it) I have to say it another way. You give direct translation from English ( Trow it to her - Kyn do neji) In Ukrainian it is strange and incorrect , we say in such case ' Kyn mjach jij/ jomu / jim / meni , etc. More examples : Give a book to her/him/them - Daj knyzku jij/jomu/jim, etc. Never ' Daj knyzku do neji ' - impossible.

Prepositions play differently in different situations. That's a reall challenge.

[SweetNovember]

Originally posted by Xristya
Hi - hope this helps a little, because I can't explain
it from the grammatical perspective, but rather from the
speaking perspective (I was born in America and taught
Ukrainian by my parents who came from Ukraine a few months
before I was born. I'm a poet and so often my grasp of the
language is intuitive rather than academic, but it may still help). If you are saying "Look at her" in Ukrainian
it would be "Divisha na neyee." However actually I think
that's a lot more like "Look UPON her", in true translation. If you wanted to say "Throw it to her" (as in, say, a ball) you would say "Kin do neyee" ("do" meaning "to" rather than "on"). Does this help in any way?
Or is it one of those paradoxes similar to English spelling
(like the word "school")? -- Xristya

Xristya,

Although I'm not a specialist in Ukrainian, I think for "Look upon her", "look at her" you can say "podyvys' na neji", "dyvys' na neji" (for imperative ). In Ukrainian, unlike English, the change of meaning is not normally conveyed by the preposition but rather by the verb, and the prepositions would only change if the verb requires that.

[Xristya]

Serhii is absolutely right (about throwing something to
someone being particular and specific), but I was also
thinking about the word "at" (when we were originally
talking about "na neye") - and "at" is really "vu" or "v"
- as in, "He is at home" being "Veen ye v xatee." Right?
Although I don't know if that affects the grammar in any
way.....Ukrainian, of course, just like English and any
other language, has its wonderful idiosyncrasies, which
once learned, are delightful (luckily a lot of them just
learned them from our parents and didn't have to study
them!).

[bliskucha]

Xristya, Serhii, and SweetNovember- Thank you all so much for responding to my grammar question regarding cases, prepositions and pronouns. When my Ukrainian-speaking grandmother was alive, I wasn't interested in learning the langauge. Now that she's gone, I am. It's not easy from a book, but I'm doing pretty well. Maybe someday I'll enroll in a course, but then it becomes like work, and I'd have to worry about getting high grades. This way it's fun! I've definitely fallen in love with the language!
Thank you all again, I'm sure I'll be needing your help in the future.

Doozhe dyakooyoo!
Sonia in New York