Learning English: Hispanic immigrants vs East European Immigrants.

[AriaFan]

Living in the States, I've noticed a great difference between the efforts of immigrants from Eastern Europe (especially Ukraine & Russia) & Latin America on learning English. A few years back, I've met a girl at college, from Uzbekistan, that was only US for 1 year and a half, and become fluent and proficient in less time than she's been here. When I worked in the supermarket, there was a Russian family that shopped there, obviously not in the states long, but learned a lot of English in a short time and very fluent. One of them even got a good handle on our wide variety of American expressions and slang. Yet, I meet immigrants from Latin America, especially Mexico, that have been here for years, but can hardly say 2 phrases, and have about a 20 word vocabulary in English.

As a Spanish speaking person in the United States, you pretty much have it made. Just about every public service & buissness from ATM transactions, taking a drivers liscense test (English or Spanish), to readily available Spanish media (UniVision and newpapers). When they go to work they have the public safety signs and instruction manuals bilingual. There are even parts of the country such as Florida and Southern California (already over run with illegals anyway) where a US born child can take all of his Schooling in Spanish (from Kindergarten through Highschool) and graduate without proficient knowlegde of English. If one was to even suggest to them that they and their children learn English, then they cry "boo hoo hooe! You're so racist! The Anglos are trying to oppress us!". Oh well, if they just want to remain maids and janitors, it's fine with me. I'll take that nice Medical job in Montana Less competition for me thanks to affirmative action.

Now if you think that I'm some kind of ethnocentric redneck, that is desperatly trying to preserve a homogenous society, you'r dead wrong. I myself am half hispanic and speak Spanish. When my first came to the states from Panama, there wasn't so much Politically Correct crap as there is now. She didn't know English very well, but made sure she became as proficient in the language as possible, and got a college education, in English.

When I was in Odessa, where my girlfriend resides, I had to know atleast some basic Russian, so I could buy something at the shops, get food, or whatn ever else. Well before I came to Odessa, I made my best effort to learn as much Russian as I could. When I finally made it that nice Black Sea city, it paid off. No, I did not become a fluent master of Russian, but I could atleast communicate basic thoughts, request, and such. My lady does not know English very well, but atleast we could communicate when I visited her. I like trying to talk in Russian, and still learning. If we ever get married, and I bring home, she does not have options like "For Russian press 2" or "English or Russian". When she becomes fluent and proficient in English, I'm sure she could get a nice job at the perfume counter of any department store. Ofcourse there will be some ignorant Mexicana whining about how "She got that job because she's a white woman!".

AriaFan

[millgirl]

I couldn't agree with you more! There is a large Hispanic population where I live and it's getting ridiculous, the way the local government is bending over backwards for these people. I have a friend who moved here from Ukraine 7 years ago. She speaks excellent English. She taught herself because she had no other choice. Recently I was in Puerto Rico for a couple of days. Rented a car and drove around the island. If you didn't speak Spanish, well tough luck, you were on your own. And it's a US territory! I just don't get it, why is the US making it easy for these people? Can someone explain?

[AriaFan]

I think the reason our local governments are trying so hard to cater to the Hispanic community, is because they are afraid of being labeled racist. As well it's overcompensating for their white guilt, of a once openly racist society. In my opinion, so called Hispanic rights groups like La Raza, are the real racist. As I said before, I'm half hispanic, but to function in the United States English is essential. It's funny how a lot of the Latin American imigrants whine about the "gringos" (which I think is a racial term in itself) not providing special Spanish services. When you go to Latin America, except for a real tourist spot, you're stranded without atleast a basic knowledge of Spanish. In fact they demand that you learn Spanish in Mexico, Guatemala, Ecuador, Peru, and so on. When I'm visting my family and friends in Panama, I have to speak in Spanish! Most of my relatives (not to mention the rest of area), know very little English, or none at all. In Panama, if I want to watch TV, read a magazine/newspaper, shop and enything else essential to daily living, I must know Spanish. Yet they can come to the states, and not bother learning the language and get by, because our officials suffer a white guilt complex.

As for Puerto Rico, you are right that it is a US territory. However, they do have the right to the Spanish language, because that's island has a real Latino culture that's been there before the Spanish American war. The only problem I'd have is if they come to the mainland, and expect special treatment (like many Mexicans). Usually, Puerto Ricans that are in the US, speak English (though they speak Spanish at home and among themselves) tend to assimulate into mainstream American society, yet they feel they have to show everybody they're proud Puerto Rican.

[nadya562]

Well Ariafan you come across as being very racist. Well unlike yourself, I am a hispanic who respects, loves and enjoys my fellow race. It makes perfect sense for those hispanic immigrants not to learn English. If you were moving to a country with a difficult language and with a large population of those who could understand you why bother studying to learn their language? I know that in Russia I struggled to learn Russian but it was my goal, to precisely learn Russian. In case you haven't noticed hispanics are not white and have often been victims of racial attacks and other violent acts. That is why they much rather be with people who act, speak and look similar to them. East europeans are white and can easily assimilate into middle class america.

[Observer]

Why can't Spanish enjoy the same status as English in those southern states where Hispanics have been living for centuries? Maybe the English-speaking Americans wouldn't be so linguistically arrogant then and try to learn some Spanish.

[Volodya987]

Agreed. The English speaking American brags about, how many different nations have been driven from their homes, and he has given them all shelter. What's wrong with cherishing their native tongues too? It is a big part of their ancestral memory. Apart from their facial features and skin colour, language is the main distinguishing feature between different peoples. If there are 148 nations living in Us#A, there are also 148 languages living there. They all deserve their place under the sun.
Volodya987

[candle]

I would like to step out from the topic about language issue and just look at the racial issue.

In my humble opinion we are as we see us self.

The perfect example is two brothers whom I know personally and who being raised in one family. Both is mix of Spanish with Indian blood, in Latin America they call them ⌠metiso■.
One becomes well educated and worked really hard. And I never hear from him as much as a single word of complain about being discriminated wile he was making a career and become a CEO of a big corporation. He has friends among many different people of different nationalities, and well respected for what he is.
The other happened to be for the most of his life jobless with many following troubles. So, as a result he is the one who carry a complex of being discriminated for his Hispanic/Indian origins. And being bitter about his life blames white people, capitalism and the government.

I suspect is just something else that we are missing here. Maybe it depends on each person. Some people fill discriminated, some don▓t, some people learn English quick, and some have other priorities. It▓s a very complicated world, I have trouble to generalize when it comes to something like this.