Which language is the closest to Ukrainian?

[happy_gunner]

Is it Polish, Russian or Slovak? I was in Slovakia two months back and with my sort of intermediate level Russian I could guess a lot of what was written in the newspapers, and I wondered if Ukrainian was even closer to Slovakian, seeing as Ukraine borders Slovakia.
Or is Polish or Russian closer, due to recent history?
Just curious.

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Irinka
I was born in Ukraine and lived there for a long time before coming to Canada.. I speak fluent Ukrainian (not the kind that has Polish words in every sentence) and I also speak Fluent Russian. I am in love with both languages.
My family is Ukrainian and we can trace our lineage back at least 500 years, thanx to our constant efforts.
I live in Toronto, in a mostly Ukrainian neighbourhood, most people who were born here and learned Ukrainian from their parents, are bitter nationalists, always insulting the Russian language without spending at least a month or two in Ukraine.
The Canadian-born young Ukrainians speak the weirdest Ukrainian that I have EVER heard! It's completely filled with Polish and Ukranized English words, when I first started to make friends with them, they accused me of not knowing Ukrainian!!!!! too funny, while I had no clue as to which language they were actually speaking in...how sad..

What you are suggesting basically, is Ethnic Cleansing in Ukraine, and it is the stupidest and the most barbaric thing that I have ever read. (See Ethnic Cleansing in Yugoslavia if not convinced) Please continue your education and try to visit Ukraine once in a while..not as a tourist, but as a person who wants to learn.

Irina

I found this statement in the other thread but it seems to be typical opinion for some Ukrainians. The Western Ukraine seems to use another Ukrainian than the Eastern part. I found many contradictory opinions reading many posts in Ukraine.com.
My question is: Are there any oficial, scientific institutions taking care of the general Ukrainian language in Ukraine?
Is there any well established General Ukrainian Language?
As a Pole, I am surprised with this situation. My language is screened by the Polish Academy of Sciences and our grammar and spelling rules are under strict control. Any dialects are ONLY dialects, without any serious effect on the mainstream language policies.
Happy-gunner's question is very good and deserves a serious answer. I feel Kathy and her husband could be particularly helpful in this case.
Irinka, I assure you that Poles cannot easily understand spoken Ukrainian language. The pronounciation is much different. The Polish people in the USA and Canada also have their Polish modified but it is so easily recognized in Poland. It has NULL effect on the language spoken or written in Poland. They are welcome in Poland although their "shop za korner-em/sklep za rogiem/ shop behind a corner" is really funny. We are never angry at their Polish-American, we like it in a way. It is a nice echo of their old Patria!
The_Last_Word has given a serious but unfortunately much biased answer claiming that there is no Ukrainian language but rather Russian spoiled by Polish. My own little research made me sure that he is WRONG.
The answer is rooted in long Rusyn/Ukrainian history. Mydra, help us please!!

HG, Slovak is regarded in Poland as the closest language to Polish. Ukrainian includes thousands of Polish words but I believe that the basic grammatical structure resembles Russian rather than Polish.

[Edited by Zbyszek on 30th December 2002 at 22:27]

[happy_gunner]

Many thanks Zbyszek, the reason I asked is that I was thinking it would come in useful if I learned Slovak, I would like to learn Ukrainian and Polish but I'm already learning Russki and my brain couldn't hack two difficult (for me) languages at once.
Slovak has two advantages, it's an easy alphabet and it's a cheap place for me to hop over to and practise without the hassle of visas etc.
It may then be easier for me to understand Ukrainian and Polish.
As for Polish, I work with two Polish speakers who teach me a few words but I still have trouble even saying "Widzew Lodz"

As for "The Western Ukraine seems to use another Ukrainian than the Eastern part."
I think there are three dialects East, North and South, although that's according to my "Lonely Planet Ukrainian Phrasebook" which also claims that "Ukrainian is the first language of the majority of the population"(!) so hopefully one of the natives on here can tell us more.

[Zbyszek]

One important and obvious remark about languages:
Nearly all of them are wonderful products of millions of nameless contributors, the most of whom were illiterate shepherds, hunters or peasants!
At a certain state of development, any language needs systematic state sponsorship in order to be improved and refined.
English became sophisticaterd because of the British power, Polish developed so well in the XVIth century because of the Rzeczpospolita(Polish Commonwealth) glory. Russian was underdeveloped at that time, but when the Russian Empire grew, Russian grew with it.
Polish experienced some setback with the fall of Rzeczpospolita but happily the cultural environment engine has already been set to high revolutions and it was not so easy to stop it. Ukraine was unlucky and there was no state to support her language. No wonder that it is less developed than Polish or Russian.
My conclusion is: THE UKRAINIAN STATE MUST SPONSOR ITS LANGUAGE AND DEFEND IT. Poland is defending her language as seriously as her very independence and the results are very good. Luckily, communism or rather its mild Polish edition did not stop this process, paradoxically, many things were improved instead.
Kathy, the proper spelling is zegarek and the pronounciation is [z e 'g a r e k]. Hodunnek - easy to guess for Poles because hody means walking in PL. Such associations make me understand the printed Ukrainian relatively easily but it would be much more difficult when listening to it. Anyway, thank you very much for your answer.

[Edited by Zbyszek on 2nd January 2003 at 00:15]

[Zbyszek]

Originally posted by Kathy
Greetings Zbyszek - thank you for the correct spelling of zegarek - I transliterated (a tricky business) from Ukrainian. "Khodete" is "walking in Ukrainian, as well.

I disagree that Ukraine needs Ukrainian language to develop normally as a nation state. Ukraine was subservient to Moscow for 50 years or more, it has no history of leading politicians, for the best leaders, Ukraine's best minds (many now serving in the Russian government) have always moved to Moscow. This, not language, is the reason Ukraine does not have a well developed state today.

With the collapse of communism, Russia's politicians have studied their great Tsarist diplomats, such as Gorchakov, in formulating international policy. Ukraine, ruled by second rate hicks, is mired in corruption more rampant than in many African countries - a shame for all Ukrainians. Ukraine is a laughing stock in the world, and that is a reality.

Language must develop naturally, it cannot be forced. If Ukraine's youth wishes to speak Ukrainian, this will happen. I believe the Ukrainian government should encourage such policies with grants and incentives, but not by force. Unfortunately, such policies are beyond the understanding of most of Ukraine's current politicians - commie scum who continue to suck the life out of Ukraine.

Greetings Kathy/Katya/Kasia, you are right of course, language can not be forced upon people. However, any reasonable government tries to create favourable cultural environment, so important in making language live and develop. A long-term policy is really needed. I realize how difficult it is now and how delicate this matter is. Some disputants (Vanya, Zhuk, Andrej) made me aware of it. Andrej's statements are maybe not welcome here but they show well the practical aspect of the language issue in Ukraine. They should be taken into account. How sad to conclude that the present UA gov't misses its people's expectations to such a degree!

[Andrej]

Kathy, although the law has been drafted, the lefties would need to get 140 votes on top of the 165 that they compose in order to pass this bill. Something tells me though, it might just be...

[happy_gunner]

Originally posted by Kathy
Another problem is that Russia is playing the oppression of minorities card with the EU - the Baltic Republics have had this played against them, which may delay their acceptance into the EU.

In the case of Latvia at least, Russia have been totally justified.
When someone walks into a Russian bookshop, asks for Russian books, in Russian, gets an answer in Russian, and tries to shut the business down for not conducting business in the official language, then there is some serious growing-up needs to be done.
Similar to the morons who say "Odesa" "Eire" "Myanmar" "F.Y.R.O.Macedonia", and my favourite from General Franco : Changing "Barcelona FC" to "Barcelona CF" ie Just the sort of childish PC crap that the USSR loved so much.
Sorry about the rant, I just want to shoot the above people

But I can't see why Ukraine can't have both languages co-exist as you say, because the Welsh have managed it, and as these boards show it is only certain elements of the diaspora that get upset by Russian being spoken in Ukraine.